WanderingMystic
Adventurer
The big problem with flourishes is that you are not helping your ally. The Valor bard is supposed to be the bard who is fighting on the battlefield inspiring his comrades while the sword bard is just showing off.
D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Bard"
- Thread starter Veltharis ap Rylix
- Start date
WanderingMystic
Adventurer
The one thing I wish the Valor got more than anything else (and this goes for war cleric and blade warlock) was 1 weapon mastery.
I'm not a big fan of the Sword bard's flourishes. I think they miss the point of the bard class in general. Bards are meant to be a support and control class. They screw with the opposition and boost their allies. But the Sword bard is selfish. Their bardic inspiration gets spent on letting themselves make stronger attacks instead of helping their allies.
That's not to say that Valor bards couldn't use a bit of extra juice. Getting to cast a cantrip as part of an Attack action is pretty neat, but depends a lot on what cantrips they get. The 2014 bard only has two damage-dealing cantrips (thunderclap and vicious mockery), so it would be nice to have some more options there, and preferably before level 10 and Magical Secrets.
Considering most people will use the same weapon for the majority of their carear, that's actually quite a significant upgrade. Its not "just 1 weapon mastery", its "you gain the full power of the weapon mastery system".
Push on tap, advantage on a lot of attacks, constant proning, etc etc.
WanderingMystic
Adventurer
It is a power boost I will agree with you on that. Now that the bard can use one of his two attacks as a cantrip I do not feel like they need it as much as they used to. I do feel though that they are just as martial as the rogue is so in my head it makes sense to me that they should have it. As far as warlock they don't need it since it has been all but confirmed that they will be getting the third attack but I think it would make for a great invocation. War clerics and forge clerics to me it makes sense that they would be granted something like that.
The reason I don't like these very martial options not getting it is that it makes a 1 level fighter dip almost mandatory imo.
I would argue it’s less martial and more a gish. And sure you could take a level of fighter but bard levels look quite good and you sacrifice spellcasting power. A reasonable option for sure, “mandatory”…it’s a bit early to say that
I meant I don’t really know how you get those Feats, or who gets them (automatically?), or who CAN get them, or when.
I also disagree that the Swords Bard’s flourishes go against what a Bard is “supposed to” be or do, because I think any such notions are entirely subjective.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
Anyways I considered the idea that a Dance Bard with Evasion might drop area of effect spell on themselves and allies, and hope that Evasion lets them avoid damage from their own spells. Probably not the best idea most of the time.
mellored
Legend
They are on the class table, just as before. Fighter at 1, Paladin and Ranger at 2, Champion gets an extra (6?).
And I assume anyone can spend a feat to get them. Fighting Initiate already existed, except now it's more direct.
It's really ends up identical.
Oh, I think fighter can swap theirs out when they level up.
If you are talking about weapon mastery. Then that's level 1 for the martial classes. Pick a weapon at the start of the day and get a "cantrip" level effect depending on the weapon. Like slowing by 10'. There is also a feat if other classes want it.
Fighter 1 is still a good dip for anyone wanting to use weapons.
Agreed.
Nothing wrong with a "selfish" subclass on a "selfless" class. Any more than a support on a selfish class (i.e. Mastermind Rogue.)
Mirrorrorrim
Hero
IMO, combat actions/DCs in D&D should not be based on opposed ability/skill checks. Ability/Skill checks scale way beyond bounded accuracy to base DC's on, let alone variable DCs, making the effectiveness both wildly variable, and very min-maxable.
We saw that in grappling, and that got changed for the better in my opinion.
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