D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

Veltharis ap Rylix · 2024-07-14T19:01:29+0100

Baumi said:
But how many people will worship a mischief maker? I mean even Loki THE Mischief god is seen as more evil.

I mean, depends on where he is in his proverbial character arc. Apart from the death of Baldur and Ragnarok, Loki could pass as a character out of Looney Toons almost effortlessly, and even the former is basically a prank that went way too far.

And his more explicitly villainous acts hint at lost mythological context that could alter how those actions were meant to be perceived quite drastically - pretty easy to paint bringing about the death of the old gods and the destruction of the world as evil, but significantly less so when those old gods are portrayed as hopelessly flawed and destroying the world is necessary in order for it to be reborn as something better.

Chaosmancer · 2024-07-14T19:28:27+0100

Micah Sweet said:
Don't use quotation marks on a word I didn't use. I said I'm glad I don't have to play with the limitations with which you are apparently comfortable, not that I couldn't, and I certainly never said the cleric was unplayable.

You don't even play the same game I do. You have repeatedly told us that you don't play 5e.

Yes, I'm comfortable that not every single cleric concept has a subclass. I was comfortable with that when the PHB had 7 sublclasses, I was comfortable with that when they were still lacking subclasses after Xanathars, I was comfortable with that when they were still lacking subclasses after Tashas, and I remain comfortable with it. Because you can't end up covering every single possible subclass.

I'm also comfortable with those same limits on Barbarians, Fighters, Rogues, Druids, Bards, Sorcerers, Wizards, Monks, Rangers, Paladins, Artificers and Warlocks.

And other than sighing wistfully into the distance you haven't actually laid out what concepts are supposedly both vital and missing, just making side comments about how you are glad you aren't comfortable with it like I am.

g00se99994 · 2024-07-14T19:33:14+0100

Chaosmancer said:
You don't even play the same game I do. You have repeatedly told us that you don't play 5e.

Yes, I'm comfortable that not every single cleric concept has a subclass. I was comfortable with that when the PHB had 7 sublclasses, I was comfortable with that when they were still lacking subclasses after Xanathars, I was comfortable with that when they were still lacking subclasses after Tashas, and I remain comfortable with it. Because you can't end up covering every single possible subclass.

I'm also comfortable with those same limits on Barbarians, Fighters, Rogues, Druids, Bards, Sorcerers, Wizards, Monks, Rangers, Paladins, Artificers and Warlocks.

And other than sighing wistfully into the distance you haven't actually laid out what concepts are supposedly both vital and missing, just making side comments about how you are glad you aren't comfortable with it like I am.

Why bother discussing a games mechanics with someone that doesn't like to play it?

Chaosmancer · 2024-07-14T21:21:54+0100

g00se99994 said:
Why bother discussing a games mechanics with someone that doesn't like to play it?

I ask myself that many times. However, I do prefer to respond to people who respond to me, rather than ignore them. Micah decided to interject into the conversation when I responded to Muso, and that set the discussion into motion.

Micah Sweet · 2024-07-14T21:34:12+0100

Chaosmancer said:
You don't even play the same game I do. You have repeatedly told us that you don't play 5e.

Yes, I'm comfortable that not every single cleric concept has a subclass. I was comfortable with that when the PHB had 7 sublclasses, I was comfortable with that when they were still lacking subclasses after Xanathars, I was comfortable with that when they were still lacking subclasses after Tashas, and I remain comfortable with it. Because you can't end up covering every single possible subclass.

I'm also comfortable with those same limits on Barbarians, Fighters, Rogues, Druids, Bards, Sorcerers, Wizards, Monks, Rangers, Paladins, Artificers and Warlocks.

And other than sighing wistfully into the distance you haven't actually laid out what concepts are supposedly both vital and missing, just making side comments about how you are glad you aren't comfortable with it like I am.

I don't play WotC 5e, either the 2014 version or the upcoming 5.5. I do play Level Up, which is a different, largely compatible version of 5e that works better for me in almost all respects. It’s your choice to assume WotC and 5e are synonyms.

James Gasik · 2024-07-15T01:57:22+0100

Micah Sweet said:
I don't play WotC 5e, either the 2014 version or the upcoming 5.5. I do play Level Up, which is a different, largely compatible version of 5e that works better for me in almost all respects. It’s your choice to assume WotC and 5e are synonyms.

In a thread about the new WotC books, why exactly would someone doubt that WotC and 5e are not synonymous? I wouldn't come to this thread expecting a discussion about Kobold Press products!

Micah Sweet · 2024-07-15T03:21:23+0100

James Gasik said:
In a thread about the new WotC books, why exactly would someone doubt that WotC and 5e are not synonymous? I wouldn't come to this thread expecting a discussion about Kobold Press products!

To me, 5e is a big tent, and WotC is not the only 5e game in town. I see no reason not to discuss the whole family when I think it's relevant.

Chaosmancer · 2024-07-15T04:01:31+0100

Micah Sweet said:
To me, 5e is a big tent, and WotC is not the only 5e game in town. I see no reason not to discuss the whole family when I think it's relevant.

In what way is Level Up relevant to the discussion of the number of Cleric Subclasses in WoTC's new 2024 book? Because you were explicitly discussing how few options were in that specific book. Level Up's cleric doesn't even use Subclasses, they have Archetypes, and looking at the list... the 5 archetypes they have certainly aren't changed by WoTC's book being printed.

So, where is the relevance to the discussion?

Micah Sweet · 2024-07-15T05:57:20+0100

Chaosmancer said:
In what way is Level Up relevant to the discussion of the number of Cleric Subclasses in WoTC's new 2024 book? Because you were explicitly discussing how few options were in that specific book. Level Up's cleric doesn't even use Subclasses, they have Archetypes, and looking at the list... the 5 archetypes they have certainly aren't changed by WoTC's book being printed.

So, where is the relevance to the discussion?

In what way are archetypes functionally different from subclasses? It's the same concept with a different name.

And I was suggesting what I see as a better way to handle the concept in Level Up - get away from the idea of domains altogether and divide using a different metric. They do the same thing with wizards and schools.

D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

Veltharis ap Rylix

Legend

Chaosmancer

Legend

g00se99994

Explorer

Chaosmancer

Legend

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

Chaosmancer

Legend

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

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