D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: "New Wizard"

Marandahir said:

Yes.

Unrelated: No mention of Arcane Recovery means it's still in, right? They would have mentioned it's axed in the article, per the notes about "if it's not mentioned, it's unchanged or virtually unchanged"?

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Yeah, this is a changelog.

Parmandur said:

Yeah, this is a changelog.

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Thanks. Just checking, because the Paladin one doesn't mention a few of features that were removed in even the most recent UA Playtest, despite also saying that if it doesn't mention it it's not change (Divine Health, Cleaning Touch are the ones I'm thinking of).

Sorry have to vent a bit. You can just simply ignore this and think I'm a silly man, but I want to get that out of my system..

I always loved and played the Wizard until 5E, where spellcasting become so common that it felt mundane instead of wonderous. A class thats only feature is spellcasting therefore became simply bland compared to Warlocks, Bards, Clerics who have not only a interesting non-spellcasting flair but also special features that make them unique. So I hoped that they would spice up the master of arcane and make it more interesting in 2024, but no one got less rework than the Wizards (except the Illusionist Subclass).

Wizards got one major new Feature (Spell Memorization), but thats so limited that you will get to use it maybee once per adventure or you will be constantly begging for short rest just to make it usefull. But worse, the Cleric gets the new Divine Intervention that does conceptionaly the same but 1000x better.

Also it is said that the Wizard don't need the cool features because he got the best spells, but Bards and Feat users can pick from wizards while not from Classes like Paladins and Rangers are protected (I know why smite and co are important to them, but so are fireball, find Familiar and the like to a wizard). Also non-wizard spell lists get stronger and more diverse with each book so the difference gets smaller.

It's also said that a great Wizards advantage is his massive ammount of spells, but thats quite useless when he cannot prepare more than any other full-caster and he also learn only a subset of them unlike a Cleric and Druid's and the like who learn all their spells automatically.

Then they still don't get any Weapon/Armor Proficienies, which fits the theme, but as soon as the spells run out they only have cantrips to relly on, but Clerics and Druids are even better with that.

Most of these points also fits the Sorcerer, who's only feature was metamagic which felt to limited to differentiate himself from other spellcasters (know to few effects, limited uses, often subtle). But the new Sorcerer Rage, Metamagic Recovery, rebalanced Metamagic and the new subclasses will hopefully make it stand out more now.

So thats enough .. sorry for my rant. I actually hope most are happy with the Wizard and have fun playing him, but I wanted to get the frustrations about my once most beloved class out.

To end it on a positive note, I am still very happy with everything else I saw about the new Edition so far and cannot wait to play one of the other new Classes! 8D

Baumi said:

Wizards got one major new Feature (Spell Memorization), but thats so limited that you will get to use it maybee once per adventure or you will be constantly begging for short rest just to make it usefull.

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Same as warlocks and monks.

But really, Wizards main feature was, and still is, casting rituals without needing to prepare them. That's how they have more spells "prepared" than anyone else.

And keep in mind Bards and Sorcerers can only swap spells on level up. So you can cast, with some time, twice the variety of spells as anyone else.

If casting alarm, Tensors floating disk, detect magic, Leominster tiny hut, water breathing, Rary's Telepathic Bond, ... is not exciting to you, then yea, play a sorcerer.

Edit: the video title is "collector of spells". Not master of the arcane.

mellored said:

Same as warlocks and monks.

But really, Wizards main feature was, and still is, casting rituals without needing to prepare them. That's how they have more spells "prepared" than anyone else.

If casting alarm, Tensors floating disk, detect magic, Leominster tiny hut, water breathing, Rary's Telepathic Bond, ... is not exciting to you, then yea, play a sorcerer.

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That assumption demonstrates a myopic skim of the class that creates the problem. Wizards don't get to add rituals to their spellbook for free like Those other arcane casters get other (sub)class abilities of note to make up for their reduced spell selection, often at will ones, and they get to double dip with extra upper & top tier spells added to their spell list to make up for their reduced spell selection. That double dip is only the tip of the iceberg of problems though .

In the last playtest we saw them wizards had less spells than sorcerer and the sorcerer had a bunch of class features Todd & JC were excited to talk up in the videos. It's not really been explicitly made clear if 2024 even admits to any of that was a gross mistake. Nor did the apparent boredom starkly contrasting this video from all the others really make clear how 2024 might correct that.. if it does.

Adding those ritual spells you note comes at the cost of other spell choices. If those spells were banger daily driver type selections it would be pure win & confirm your assertion, but the vast majority of ritual spells are niche spells & often edge case niches at that. So wizards wind up with even fewer spells because some of the spells they chose were chosen with fingers crossed & the hope that they might be ones that become useful through some future edge case.

tetrasodium said:

That assumption demonstrates a myopic skim of the class that creates the problem. Wizards don't get to add rituals to their spellbook for free

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It litterally says for free.

"Whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook".

"In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Evocation spell from the Wizard spell list to your spellbook for free."

A level 20 wizard has 54 free spells in their book, plus can find more.
A level 20 warlock has 27 spells, including the subclass.

Wizard has litterally 2x as many spells as the warlock. And that doesn't count the fact that you can learn more.

And while you could avoid learning rituals, that would be like a monk avoided Dex.

But again. I certainly understand if you don't find Comprehend Languages as exciting as Quickened firebolt.

mellored said:

It litterally says for free.

"Whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook".

"In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Evocation spell from the Wizard spell list to your spellbook for free."

A level 20 wizard has 54 free spells in their book, plus can find more.
A level 20 warlock has 27 spells, including the subclass.

Wizard has litterally 2x as many spells as the warlock. And that doesn't count the fact that you can learn more.

And while you could avoid learning rituals, that would be like a monk avoided Dex.

But again. I certainly understand if you don't find Comprehend Languages as exciting as Quickened firebolt.

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You ignored all of the other related problems caused by the double dipping given to the various other arcane spellcasters we last saw with the full wizard list along with the vast majority of top tier arcane spells. Getting benefits in one area for being limited in a second area requires the limits in that second area to be more meaningful than a "I had to take X spell at this level instead of Y because it wasn't available to my class or my subclass gave it to me free" vrs "oh I chose X spell at this level instead of Y because they kinda overlap in function & I didn't see a need to have or prep both". Getting benefits in two areas for such a minor hangup is worse

tetrasodium said:

You ignored all of the other related problems caused by the double dipping given to the various other arcane spellcasters we last saw with the full wizard list along with the vast majority of top tier arcane spells. Getting benefits in one area for being limited in a second area requires the limits in that second area to be more meaningful than a "I had to take X spell at this level instead of Y because it wasn't available to my class or my subclass gave it to me free" vrs "oh I chose X spell at this level instead of Y because they kinda overlap in function & I didn't see a need to have or prep both". Getting benefits in two areas for such a minor hangup is worse

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Not entirely sure what your trying to say.

If it's the fact that wizards can choose their spells is more powerful than being given spell by a subclass, then I agree.

An Arch Fey warlock could go a whole undead campaign without using dominate beasts, effectively wasting a spell preparation.

mellored said:

Not entirely sure what your trying to say.

If it's the fact that wizards can choose their spells is more powerful than being given spell by a subclass, then I agree.

An Arch Fey warlock could go a whole undead campaign without using dominate beasts, effectively wasting a spell preparation.

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You are still trying to isolate parts of an interconnected problem. It's a complex problem with many difficult or impossible to untangle individual components that was talked about in 223 & 225. I think this is more of a case where an effort to oversimplify a complex interconnected problem down to single disconnected points in isolation fails to see the forest as a whole after focusing on individual leaves in isolation on an individual tree.

mellored said:

It litterally says for free.

"Whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook".

"In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Evocation spell from the Wizard spell list to your spellbook for free."

A level 20 wizard has 54 free spells in their book, plus can find more.
A level 20 warlock has 27 spells, including the subclass.

Wizard has litterally 2x as many spells as the warlock. And that doesn't count the fact that you can learn more.

And while you could avoid learning rituals, that would be like a monk avoided Dex.

But again. I certainly understand if you don't find Comprehend Languages as exciting as Quickened firebolt.

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And how many spells does a Cleric or Druid knows? Certainly much more than a Wizard.

The Wizard is a better Ritual Caster, but that advantage/differentioations is actually a bit less in the new Version since everyone can now cast Rituals, including Sorcerers and non-book Warlock. Also book-Warlocks are better at Rituals since they get all level 1 Rituals from all classes.