D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

Chaosmancer

Legend
Speaking only for myself, I am looking forward to playing a new Trickery Cleric. I've not done so in 5e (created one, but the game quickly collapsed), but I am excited about the challenge of making it work.

Will it be optimal? I doubt it. But my sense from the playtest is there is a lot more potential than there has been before.

a. clearer rules on illusions are promised. This is a biggie. Illusions have always been a "Mother may I" school of casting (to use a phrase deployed in the cleric video for other purposes), and I'm hoping (as I have hoped here and here) that 2024 PHB will reduce this aspect.

b. the trickery cleric gets a few illusion things that the illusionist doesn't (and I'll just say -- they've really amped the illusionist, and it's now much more exciting than it has been (for me) since AD&D). Blessings of the Trickster (stealth advantage, now for self as well) is nice, but it's no Pass Without Trace; it may allow some truly superhuman effects though if stacked. For most games, though, the trickery cleric will come down to two abilities.

1. Invoke Duplicity (at 3). Making an illusory double of yourself is cool, and I have no idea (yet) what to do with is. The fun/challenge will be trying to make this actually do something. Yes, you can have advantage on attack rolls, but cleric damage spells (certainly the cantrips) don't involve attack rolls (another longstanding hobby horse of mine). You can swap places up to 120' away, but it's a lot of work when so many other classes have flight or teleporting abilities.

2. Trickster's Magic (at 6). Illusion spells go from an action to a bonus action. Awesome, except that the old cleric list only had silence at this level on the core list. Will that increase? If not, then you have only the trickster illusion spells -- at 6 that's Disguise Self, invisibility, and Hypnotic Pattern. That's slim pickings, but I can see having fun with any of these combining them as a bonus action with an attack. (Again, the attack needs an attack roll: if you make yourself invisible (bonus) you then get an attack with advantage -- it becomes costly, through.)

c. This means that in making the build, I am going to want to increase the number of illusion spells available to the character, and have a solid attack (cantrip or weapon) that will work will with bonus-action illusions.
  • Gnome or High Elf can get Minor Illusion cast with Wisdom.
  • Magic Initiate as a Background Feat can give you Color Spray or Silent Image. This will also give you an attack cantrip, which will need a to-hit roll, which the Cleric won't otherwise have (if True Strike stays the same, that lets it be a weapon attack, benefiting from Wis).
  • a 1-level dip in Warlock can give you Misty Visions which lets you cast Silent Image without a spell slot. That means a bonus-action Silent Image every turn if you want, possibly giving yourself cover over and over again (for example) after every attack. [Of course, this is all just using playtest materials -- there will be changes]. For what it's worth, this really doesn't need to kick in until you have the ability at level 6, at which point it may not be desirable -- the first six levels are still cleric, and the dip may not be in fact desirable at that point.

Anyways -- an idea for a Trickster cleric emerged from re-reading a Fritz Lieber story, and these are the parameters that they will have to work around. Depending on the guidelines they give us for illusions, this might be one of my first post-PHB2024 characters.

b) Trickery cleric did get Pass without a Trace as a Domain spell in the playtest

1) Having played with this, there are a few benefits that are non-obvious. Since you can cast through the Duplicate, I've had it run in as a distraction against beasts who attack the illusion, and supply touch based Cure Wounds (which was increased to 2d8 per spell level) which means you, technically, have an immortal healer in the combat. My DM has not allowed the Duplicate to count as the origin of an effect, like Spirit Guardians, which is completely fair, but all it takes is Magic Initiate Druid for Primal Savagery, and you can delivery damage to an enemy, who cannot in turn hit you.

2) Trickster's magic was removed. Instead the teleportation from the level 3 Invoke Duplicity was placed here at level 6. I have been using the teleportation a lot, and it has almost overshadowed the illusion itself, so I feel like that is a fair change, considering the ability to use it to utterly dance around enemies.

Also, the advantage from the Duplicate ends up depending on if you go Guardian or Thamauturge. I generally don't do high strength clerics, but if you did you could go in with a Greatsword attack that gets advantage, and at higher levels, you start adding d8's to the damage as well. Slap on Holy Weapon, and that can be NASTY as a melee attack, without needing to rely on your cantrips for the damage.

Personally, I would still likely go Thaumaturge, use Magic Initiate for Shillelagh or Primal Savagery, and focus on Wisdom, but mileage varies.
 

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Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
b) Trickery cleric did get Pass without a Trace as a Domain spell in the playtest
Yes -- knew, but didn't say.

1) Having played with this, there are a few benefits that are non-obvious. Since you can cast through the Duplicate, I've had it run in as a distraction against beasts who attack the illusion, and supply touch based Cure Wounds (which was increased to 2d8 per spell level) which means you, technically, have an immortal healer in the combat. My DM has not allowed the Duplicate to count as the origin of an effect, like Spirit Guardians, which is completely fair, but all it takes is Magic Initiate Druid for Primal Savagery, and you can delivery damage to an enemy, who cannot in turn hit you.
Cool. thanks.
2) Trickster's magic was removed. Instead the teleportation from the level 3 Invoke Duplicity was placed here at level 6. I have been using the teleportation a lot, and it has almost overshadowed the illusion itself, so I feel like that is a fair change, considering the ability to use it to utterly dance around enemies.
Ah -- too bad; I had liked that. Maybe they felt that there just weren't enough ilusions available? In any case, I don't think that should stop me wanting Minor Illusion and Still Image.
Also, the advantage from the Duplicate ends up depending on if you go Guardian or Thamauturge. I generally don't do high strength clerics, but if you did you could go in with a Greatsword attack that gets advantage, and at higher levels, you start adding d8's to the damage as well. Slap on Holy Weapon, and that can be NASTY as a melee attack, without needing to rely on your cantrips for the damage.
Yes! Once you get Holy Weapon, the landscape changes.
Personally, I would still likely go Thaumaturge, use Magic Initiate for Shillelagh or Primal Savagery, and focus on Wisdom, but mileage varies.
I don't think we know if Primal Savagery will make it into the PHB or not. But yes, going Druid will be possible (it also allows a ranged cantrip with an attack roll), but since I assume that choices for Magic Initiate will be limited to one class, I suspect I'd want to have minor illusion and that would make the decision.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
REINCARNATION

One implication of the new Divine Intervention for Clerics, which now allows castings of Raise Dead without material components in a single action, is that the Druid equivalent Reincarnation becomes even further sidelined than it was in 2014.

That's a shame -- it's a fun idea for a spell that could lead to some great in-game consequences, but I don't think it will ever get used (as I discussed here). In 2014, the material component was 1000gp (not 500, as for Raise Dead), and it was a surer dead. The only meaningful limitation on Raise Dead was that you needed the body to be complete -- as in Highlander, if you lost your head, that was it. But generally, monsters don't go around taking trophies from PC corpses. If they did... Then maybe Reincarnation would become a better spell?

In any case, this is just speculation. They might have solved it by re-writing the spell in PHB2024, but I am not hopeful. As it is, a consequence-free raise dead further marginalizes the fun possibilities of Reincarnation.
 

REINCARNATION

One implication of the new Divine Intervention for Clerics, which now allows castings of Raise Dead without material components in a single action, is that the Druid equivalent Reincarnation becomes even further sidelined than it was in 2014.
As an action is not necessarily the right reading.

And even if this is not the "official" reading, if you think that works better for you, no problem.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
Even if it's not an action, it's removing the obstacle for the "stronger" spell, to the disadvantage of the (in my view) more narratively interesting one.
 

Baumi

Adventurer
How do you actually play a adventuring trickery Cleric?

I don't mean ruleswise, but storywise. Aren't trickery Deities connected to thiefs, spys and other secretive stuff? This would work as a solo Adventurer or Villain, but as soon as you use any of your given powers everyone around you knows that you are a cleric and with time even that you have trickery powers and who would accept that or how can you do your trickery stuff any longer.
 

How do you actually play a adventuring trickery Cleric?

I don't mean ruleswise, but storywise. Aren't trickery Deities connected to thiefs, spys and other secretive stuff? This would work as a solo Adventurer or Villain, but as soon as you use any of your given powers everyone around you knows that you are a cleric and with time even that you have trickery powers and who would accept that or how can you do your trickery stuff any longer.
I would also count more general mischief-makers - Jester from Critical Role's second campaign is a pretty good example of a Trickery Domain Cleric as part of a group.
 




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