UngeheuerLich
Legend
He said fireball does the same damage as flame strike 2 levels earlier. Which is related to spells being balanced for their level.
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D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"
- Thread starter Veltharis ap Rylix
- Start date
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
No, I am not. @mellored and @UngeheuerLich both made the claim that wizard spells should do more damage than cleric spells in general. If those spells were of equal level that would be a problem.
mellored
Legend
I was being generous.
Here's how I would do it.
Divine Intervention
When you die, you meet your diety and can ask him to send you back so you can continue to serve. Generally this takes the form of teleporting you and your allies to a safe location, such as a temple dedicated to them, and resurrecting everyone with 1 hit point and 2 levels of exhaustion. Though the DM may decide to help in other ways. Once you use this feature you can't use it again for 30 days.
Greater Divine Intervention (level 20)
As one of the most dedicated and loyal servants, when you die you meet your diety, and they will now help you finish the fight. Generally this resurrects and fully heals you and all your allies, though you DM may decided they help in other ways. Once you use this feature you can't use it again for 30 days.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
What about turning back the time for a few seconds to minutes?
Would also be funny.
mellored
Legend
Different classes should have different strengths.
Though IMO, something like "Sorcerers get +level to their spell damage" would work better than having 2 different spells.
mellored
Legend
Fun, especially for a god of time or premonitions. Though it might be pretty messy remembering where everything was.
It still has the DM can do whatever clause, so go for it. But having a default option helps keep the power level set.
Another idea.
Divine Intervention: everyone gets a short rest
Greater: everyone gets a long rest.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
That is very simple and could also work.
I limited the raise dead/resurrection spells to priests of the gods of death. Nerull might return you life in exchange for another life (material component another intelligent creature who is sacrificed as part of the spell) and Wee Jas will return you to life in exchange for a suitably powerful magical item gifted to the church (spell focus a magic item tiered appropriate to character level that must be donated permanently to the church). Resurrectees are marked with a irremoveable tattoo. When you die, all your worldly goods pass to your family - it's to prevent dukes being resurrected years later and challenging the right to rule. Rich lords might be blackmailed if resurrected in secret.
Revivify I let work as normal. In this context, divine intervention to raise dead might actually be really cool to my group.
Speaking only for myself, I am looking forward to playing a new Trickery Cleric. I've not done so in 5e (created one, but the game quickly collapsed), but I am excited about the challenge of making it work.
Will it be optimal? I doubt it. But my sense from the playtest is there is a lot more potential than there has been before.
a. clearer rules on illusions are promised. This is a biggie. Illusions have always been a "Mother may I" school of casting (to use a phrase deployed in the cleric video for other purposes), and I'm hoping (as I have hoped here and here) that 2024 PHB will reduce this aspect.
b. the trickery cleric gets a few illusion things that the illusionist doesn't (and I'll just say -- they've really amped the illusionist, and it's now much more exciting than it has been (for me) since AD&D). Blessings of the Trickster (stealth advantage, now for self as well) is nice, but it's no Pass Without Trace; it may allow some truly superhuman effects though if stacked. For most games, though, the trickery cleric will come down to two abilities.
1. Invoke Duplicity (at 3). Making an illusory double of yourself is cool, and I have no idea (yet) what to do with is. The fun/challenge will be trying to make this actually do something. Yes, you can have advantage on attack rolls, but cleric damage spells (certainly the cantrips) don't involve attack rolls (another longstanding hobby horse of mine). You can swap places up to 120' away, but it's a lot of work when so many other classes have flight or teleporting abilities.
2. Trickster's Magic (at 6). Illusion spells go from an action to a bonus action. Awesome, except that the old cleric list only had silence at this level on the core list. Will that increase? If not, then you have only the trickster illusion spells -- at 6 that's Disguise Self, invisibility, and Hypnotic Pattern. That's slim pickings, but I can see having fun with any of these combining them as a bonus action with an attack. (Again, the attack needs an attack roll: if you make yourself invisible (bonus) you then get an attack with advantage -- it becomes costly, through.)
c. This means that in making the build, I am going to want to increase the number of illusion spells available to the character, and have a solid attack (cantrip or weapon) that will work will with bonus-action illusions.
- Gnome or High Elf can get Minor Illusion cast with Wisdom.
- Magic Initiate as a Background Feat can give you Color Spray or Silent Image. This will also give you an attack cantrip, which will need a to-hit roll, which the Cleric won't otherwise have (if True Strike stays the same, that lets it be a weapon attack, benefiting from Wis).
- a 1-level dip in Warlock can give you Misty Visions which lets you cast Silent Image without a spell slot. That means a bonus-action Silent Image every turn if you want, possibly giving yourself cover over and over again (for example) after every attack. [Of course, this is all just using playtest materials -- there will be changes]. For what it's worth, this really doesn't need to kick in until you have the ability at level 6, at which point it may not be desirable -- the first six levels are still cleric, and the dip may not be in fact desirable at that point.
Anyways -- an idea for a Trickster cleric emerged from re-reading a Fritz Lieber story, and these are the parameters that they will have to work around. Depending on the guidelines they give us for illusions, this might be one of my first post-PHB2024 characters.
I have never liked Ceremony (it's a poor implementation of something that shouldn't confer mechanical benefits, and leads to all sorts of weird implications), and I am really hoping it's not in PHB 2024.
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