D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Sorcerer"

Stalker0 · Wednesday at 5:02 PM

GarrettKP said:
I think people need to start wrapping their heads around features as a package instead of individually.

Yes, Innate Sorcery alone is a power buff but not exciting. But Innate Sorcery is not just a +1 and advantage. At level 7, it becomes +1, Advantage, and two Meta Magics a turn. At 20, it is all that plus a free meta magic every turn.

The issue is 7th level is actually pretty high a level, a lot of players won't reach that until later in the campaign. Its hard to look at something as "class defining" if the meat doesn't kick in until 7th.

Its actually one of my beefs with the 5e paladin, that their "class defining" save aura doesn't kick in until 6th, that's very late!

I do agree that there is nothing mechanically "wrong" with Sorc's rage, but its not really exciting either. It has almost no flavor attached. I think the idea is that you "go Super Saiyan", but it doesn't really feel that way.

Hell it doesn't even have to be new mechanics. It could be something as simple as, "you detect as magical to spells like detect magic". I mean that really adds no power to the class, but re-enforces the flavor, "I don't use magic, I AM MAGIC".

This continues to be my flavor struggle with the sorceror. Its supposed to be the "innate magic" class, but the mechanics have never really sold that flavor.

Chaosmancer · Wednesday at 5:06 PM

GarrettKP said:
I think people need to start wrapping their heads around features as a package instead of individually.

Yes, Innate Sorcery alone is a power buff but not exciting. But Innate Sorcery is not just a +1 and advantage. At level 7, it becomes +1, Advantage, and two Meta Magics a turn. At 20, it is all that plus a free meta magic every turn.

Well... yes, but no.

I get they keep trying to sell the two metamagics a turn as a huge boon, but...I don't buy it. First of all, you still have to PAY for both metamagics, so that will drain your resources very quickly. And, well, let's say you have Careful Spell, Extended Spell, Transmuted Spell and Empowered Spell (because one thing I will give the playtest is that they made many of the metamagics much more desirable)

This means that you can change the damage type of a spell, re-roll the damage of a spell, avoid harming your allies with a spell, or increase the duration and gain advantage on concentration checks for a spell. How often will you benefit from having two of these at once? Additionally, re-rolling the damage can already be done with another, so it isn't even a consideration. So, how often will you need to change the damage type of your spell AND avoid hitting allies? Or change the damage type and have advantage on concentration?

It will happen, sure, but will it come up often enough to be game changing for the sorcerer? Or will it just be a sort of nice side benefit? Most Metamagics just don't play well together, and the times when using multiple of them make sense and will have an impact feels small to me. I hope I'm wrong, but that is my gut instinct on the matter.

lall · Wednesday at 5:30 PM

lall said:
So we’re stuck with the nerfed version of Arcane Apotheosis. My bet is the cleric’s UA capstone will stick, so they’ll be the only class that can avoid the 1/3 chance of losing Wish. However, maybe that 1/3 chance is gone for every class in the new version of Wish.

Just listened to the cleric video. Sounds like Greater Divine Intervention will give clerics access to Wish, and that’s it with respect to Wish. And it looks like the Wish spell rewrite will include other ways to avoid the stress (1/3 chance of losing Wish). So every class that can cast Wish will be on equal footing.

LaTia J · Wednesday at 5:57 PM

Forgive me if I'm repeating a known fact since I didn't scroll through 15 pages, but if you're looking for the Sorcerer article on DDB, it will be out later this week.

GarrettKP · Wednesday at 7:11 PM

LaTia J said:
Forgive me if I'm repeating a known fact since I didn't scroll through 15 pages, but if you're looking for the Sorcerer article on DDB, it will be out later this week.

Question, any chance we are getting an actual Druid article instead of just the Moon Druid one?

mellored · Wednesday at 7:18 PM

fluffybunbunkittens said:
I'm conflicted on Sorcerer Rage, as it's a class-defining mechanic

IMO Meta-magic is the class defining mechanic.

+1 is just kinda tossed in there because the class would look too blank otherwise.

Kinematics · Wednesday at 8:11 PM

I think there are too many limitations layered on top of each other with respect to metamagic (limited spells, limited sorcery points, limited metamagics), and part of that manifests in the non-usefulness of the level 7 feature to use 2 metamagics at a time.

I'd change it to where you get 2 metamagics at level 2, and then 2 more at levels 4, 6, 8, and 10, so that you have all 10 listed options by level 10, and have 6 to choose from when you get Sorcery Incarnate. At least at that point you have a chance at meaningful usage of the ability.

Staffan · Wednesday at 8:20 PM

Stalker0 said:
The issue is 7th level is actually pretty high a level, a lot of players won't reach that until later in the campaign. Its hard to look at something as "class defining" if the meat doesn't kick in until 7th.

Its actually one of my beefs with the 5e paladin, that their "class defining" save aura doesn't kick in until 6th, that's very late!

Level 6 to 7 ain't that late. Level 7 is 36 ("hard") to 54 ("medium") encounters in, or 28 to 42 if you start at level 3 (which is supposed to be the default in 2024 as I understand it). That's certainly not nothing, but it's not like we're talking about years of toil.

Vael · Thursday at 6:00 PM

So, the Bard reveal also taught us that the Sorcerer, Ranger, Paladin, Bard and Warlock (and Artificer, once updated) spell lists are no longer lootable, ie, can't snip a spell from them with Magical Secrets or the Magic Initiate Feat. Overall, I think this is a good thing for most classes, but the Sorcerer didn't have any unique spells in the 2014 PHB, and while a few were in UA, overall this is an area to improve the Sorcerer.

Nadan · Thursday at 6:03 PM

Vael said:
So, the Bard reveal also taught us that the Sorcerer, Ranger, Paladin, Bard and Warlock (and Artificer, once updated) spell lists are no longer lootable, ie, can't snip a spell from them with Magical Secrets or the Magic Initiate Feat. Overall, I think this is a good thing for most classes, but the Sorcerer didn't have any unique spells in the 2014 PHB, and while a few were in UA, overall this is an area to improve the Sorcerer.

At least Sorcerer will have 2 unique AND good spells only belong to them, they used to only have chaos bolt and I won't say it's a good spell.

D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Sorcerer"

Stalker0

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lall

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LaTia J

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GarrettKP

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mellored

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Vael

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