D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal #3: "New Paladin"

"The paladin who, if they were in a movie, would ... have impossibly white teeth.”

"the paladin who, if they were in a movie, would ... have impossibly white teeth".


New Paladin preview: here are some notes, focusing on what's new and changes from the playtest materials. Last time we saw the Paladin was in Playtest 6 [=PT6 below].
See also this comparison at D&D Beyond (by someone who saw the video before it was streamed!)

OVERVIEW
  • spellcasting starts at level 1, specifically called out as an advantage for multiclassing. (Same for Rangers).
  • Lay on Hands and Weapon mastery at 1
  • Paladin's smite at 2, along with fighting style.
  • NEW: Paladin fighting style restriction is removed (all are available). You may forego fighting style to learn cantrips. [The option to get cantrips was given in Tasha's. They're letting us have it, but it's not called a "fighting style". I suspect this ties to the decision that fighting styles are feats now, and this would be weaker than magic initiate (which also gives a level 1 spell).]
  • Paladin's smite gives you the spell Divine smite, with one free casting.
  • channel divinity [CD]: uses increase: start with 2, plus 1 on a short rest.
  • divine sense in CD option (as in PT6). duration lasts 10 minutes.
  • Find steed spell at level 5, cast 1/day with no slot. Redesigned so that spell can be upcast, with a unique steed statblock. [This strongly implies that it's a class-specific spell, not on others' lists. Awesome. (Will a Lore Bard be able to select it? I hope so, and the discussion of spell lists (see below) makes me think they might, since identifying class-specific spells is harder.)]
  • Abjure Foes a CD option (given at 9 in PT6)
  • Auras are single things, with a single radius, that gain abilities/functionality (not separate auras as in 2014).
SUBCLASSES

Oath of Devotion.
  • NEW: Sacred Weapon is part of the attack action. (PT required a Bonus action).
  • Smite of Protection (level 15 in PT6)
  • Holy Nimbus (level 20) is a bonus action (as in PT6).
Oath of Glory ("...this for me is the paladin who, if they were in a movie, would look at the camera, have impossibly white teeth, with a little sparkle on them as they smile")
  • Peerless athlete lasts an hour (as in PT6)
  • NEW: Aura of Alacrity affects allies if they enter your aura on their turn (they no longer need to start there)
  • Oath of Glory has a new spell at level 17: Yolan's Regal Presence. Created by the Queen of the Elves, and makes others kneel before you and take psychic damage. [It's said that others can cast this spell too -- if right, then it's a 5th level spell and Clerics (likely) will be getting this at level 9. Perhaps he misspoke, and it's a class-specific spell.]
Oath of the Ancients
  • Nature's wrath range "has been extended"
  • Aura of Warding as in PT6 (resistance to Necrotic, Psychic, and Radiant)
  • Undying Sentinel at 15 as in PT6 (you don't return with 1hp, but [?] 3x class level.
Oath of Vengeance
  • NEW: Vow of Enmity part of attack action (not Bonus action); can transfer (as in PT6)
  • NEW: Level 20 Avenging Angel activated as a Bonus Action, and lasts an hour (not 10 min as in PT6)

NEW RULES
  • new area of effect: it's been there since 2014, but hasn't been named. It's for AOE that emanate from a character or monster -- the Emanation.
  • new approach to spell lists. Spell list is part of the class description (as we saw with the Artificer). Entries give the school, whether it needs concentration, and required components. [I presume spell descriptions will still be at the back of the book: this is referring to the lists currently on PHB 207-11.]
  • oath spell lists, patron spell lists, etc. have all been vetted and updated throughout.
 

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Remathilis

Legend
If your talking nova optimization, you take paladin just to get smite, and go to a caster with multi-attack (Valor bard) to get slots to power it. Snag polearm master and possibly haste if you can pre-cast it.

Now you can smite 3-4 times each battle, for 3 encounters.

All of that is gone with a bonus action.
Hallelujah
 

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The problem is that there are ways other classes have to do much the same thing. Did the new edition similarly address them? If not, you just have players doing their huge pile of damage differently, and fewer Paladins.
If the playtest versions of GWM and SS hold, then the Fighter's top-end nova potential will take a large hit. (And no, weapon mastery isn't making that up; weapon mastery improves baseline damage across the board but the top-end nova will still be far less.)

Also all of the revised Conjure spells from the last public playtest work more like Spirit Guardians, so if those hold they won't be bursting down single targets, either.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
If the playtest versions of GWM and SS hold, then the Fighter's top-end nova potential will take a large hit. (And no, weapon mastery isn't making that up; weapon mastery improves baseline damage across the board but the top-end nova will still be far less.)

Also all of the revised Conjure spells from the last public playtest work more like Spirit Guardians, so if those hold they won't be bursting down single targets, either.
Are Battlemaster manuevers still per attack?
 



SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself
I do nto trust anythign this guy said, considering how blatantly he will whiteroom a scenario or strech for thesis instead of actually analysing, and how he always operates on blatant 3.5 nostalgia, despite the fact how bad 3.5 was.
It's interesting that you say this. I have been listening to him recently because WotC has given him an advance copy. I think you're selling him short. I don't care about white room combat analysis, but I do think he has some interesting stuff to say. And with all the Tier rankings, I try and avoid the S tier classes and go with A, B, or C Tier stuff myself. I've found that what he's saying about different characters is pretty solid. Obviously, your mileage may vary.
 

occam

Hero
Why do we care about forcing game into a style of play no one is using, just because it's "historic" or "tradition"?
I literally posted earlier in this thread about how a typical run of Lost Mine of Phandelver resulted in game days with 20-30+ rounds of combat. It's far from "no one".
 

I literally posted earlier in this thread about how a typical run of Lost Mine of Phandelver resulted in game days with 20-30+ rounds of combat. It's far from "no one".
Were you basing it on actually playing it multiple times or just number crunching in theory? Because I played it, even added to it Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury and my experience was contradicting this, I do not believe your claim is so likely and you are just having confirmation bias.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Were you basing it on actually playing it multiple times or just number crunching in theory? Because I played it, even added to it Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury and my experience was contradicting this, I do not believe your claim is so likely and you are just having confirmation bias.
What makes either of your anecdotes more valid than the other, or more or less prone to logical fallacies?
 

SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself
The Paladin is a great example of a class that's very different depending on your adventuring day. If you have any class that has limited abilities that are better than what they can do at will, you have this issue. I haven't played a Paladin (yet) but every game I've been in has had one, and the spellcasting characters I do play have this issue.

It's been my experience (which goes back to the start of 5E where we played Hoard of the Dragon Queen) and we never did days like the suggested six encounter days. I was actually yelled at that quite a bit because I was told the game was balanced around it. Now in 2024 we have a situation where the Paladin is rebalanced because they are more effective if the adventuring day is shorter.

To me, what we really need is a thorough discussion of what an adventuring day is if we're going to have limited resources for classes that you can burn through. I'd expect that to be a front-and-center section of the DMG, but players also should know what to expect. I think the Paladin is a great example of how this works directly in the game, since they can spike a bucket full of damage in a small number of encounters, but the Cleric or the Wizard have the same issue (as do pretty much any of the classes that reset on a long rest).

People are suggesting that one or two encounters should cut spell slots in half. Maybe that's a good idea, but I frankly don't know. And that's the discussion we should have. If we don't, and don't address all the classes with daily resources, we're just going to reduce what the Paladin contributes and not affect the other classes. And those HPs aren't going to go away by themselves, people! Smite, smite!
 

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