bulletmeat
Adventurer
Yeah, that's what most of the rules I have are for.
Looking for D&D-like alternatives to D&D 5e
- Thread starter Blue
- Start date
overgeeked
B/X Known World
As mentioned, some of these are contradictory or mutually exclusive. Tactical, grid-based combat that's fast as one example.
What specifically is the objection to OSR?
I haven't played Dragonbane, but everything I've read or seen or heard about it suggests it's close to what you're looking for.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
5e D&D manages it - most combats are over in 30 minutes, so 20% of a session. We can have a combat heavy session with 3 combats and still have 40% of our play time left.
He doesn't want it. Sorry, I don't have more details.
Excellent! That's on the list he's following.
I can't even begin to count the number of 5E D&D sessions I've played across something like a dozen or more groups, but I can count on one hand the number of fights that were less than 45 minutes.*
I pine for the days of either (a) playing with people that make fast decisions and resolve their rolls quickly, or (b) reaction and morale checks so combat encounters could end early/before they start.
*As a player. As a GM, I actually have been using reaction and morale since maybe year 2 of 5E's existence, so I wrap up fights pretty quickly, despite the fact that my players still waffle on literally every decision, and roll each die individually as if to taunt and frustrate me eternally.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
Not in my experience.
Yeah. That's far closer to my experience as well. About 60 minutes is an average fight.
SpellObjectEnthusiast
Adventurer
This matches my experience as well with 5e. Fights in PF2 or OSR games like OSE/Shadowdark are significantly faster - even when the party is composed of the exact same players!
Thomas Shey
Legend
Yeah, that's what most of the rules I have are for.
It seems on paper like FAGE 2e is better here, but its hard to tell just by reading how much.
Thomas Shey
Legend
Being fair to 5e here, any system with any meaningful in-combat decision making beyond the OD&D "pick your target" can slow down if you have people with decision paralysis or ADHD tendencies to get distracted.
Big same. The same players that puzzle over their sheet for a painful 2 minutes every time it's their turn in 5E are the same players who in Shadowdark play combat-as-puzzle like they are Special Forces who can run trigonometry calculations off the top of their heads.
It doesn't make any sense.
I think for my player groups, it's something more like:
- If the character sheet is simple, combat-as-puzzle runs pretty quickly and the players are engaged with the fiction (see above).
- If the character sheet is complex, the sheet is a puzzle to interpret in order to play through the combat.
toucanbuzz
No rule is inviolate
I too wanted a 5E break with similar mechanics. Currently using Fantasy Age (FAGE) 2nd Edition and its predecessor (Dragon Age) for rules on poison and traps that didn't make it to the more generic FAGE. It's a 3d6 system with familiarity for D&D players as one basically replaces the d20 roll with 3d6. My gamers have picked it up fairly quickly.
- About the same volume of rules as D&D core, but only 1 rulebook. No splat books.
- Runs on a grid
- Movement requires an action, leading to strategic decision making, and moving out of melee reduces one's remaining movement (each round a player gets 1 Major action, like attacking or charging, and 1 Minor action like moving or improving defense/offense, or 2 minor actions). Terrain should be emphasized
- Stackable combat modifiers and cover rules, generally within a +3/-3 spectrum
- Unique "stunt" system, occurring with a successful roll and rolling doubles (allows choice of additional effects and if enough stunt points are generated multiple effects, such as disarming, extra damage, spell shields, extra attack, and jumping to top of initiative).
- Stunt system, from a 1st edition book (highly compatible systems), can be expanded to locations (e.g. use terrain to advantage, like knocking a statue over onto foes) and specific combats (e.g. if you generate 4 stunt points, cut off one of the giant crab's arms). It's really up to the DM's imagination.
- Skill system resembles 4E "roll play" (overuse of skills), if you want it to. Or you can roleplay it out.
- Con: needs a house rule for lowering Health (aka hit points) to speed up combats, especially around levels 5+. With this fix, combats resemble the speed of low-level D&D and can resolve, very roughly, within 3-6 rounds if you do nothing but slug it out.
- Con: it's harder to create a "blaster" mage, unlike D&D
- Con: limited # of prefab adventures. Pro: easy to convert once you grasp, like D&D, what is an appropriate challenge for your players and appropriate treasure.
- 1 rulebook
- Understandable rules for character creation and advancement
- 3 core classes of mage, rogue, and warrior that can be optimized into nearly anything you want (e.g. assassins, archers, healers, necromancers, and so on); you pick as you go up on levels
- Can optimize by over-focusing in one area (e.g. everything to improving melee combat)
- Con: has several situational bonuses, most of which are covered by the DM (e.g. bonuses for outnumber opponents, attacking prone opponents). However, light tracking is necessary as some characters have features such as your choice of +1 to defense or attack for the battle when using a particular fighting style. Nowhere near as bad as 3E, where you "buff" and might be tracking 6 modifiers on you at any time.
- Players can jump right in with a cheat sheet for actions & stunts.
- Character advancement consistent and no "must have" abilities
- No optimizing necessary
- Sounds like they'll be okay with most any system
- You plan your character as you go, though you do need to plan in advance to qualify for some features (e.g. have a certain Strength to learn a certain weapon style). While the advancement is easy to understand (you get this and this each level), the choices are extremely varied
- Con: It's easy for a Rogue to optimize heavily in melee combat, making others feel like their damage contribution is far less. This is intentional as Rogues are meant to be the heaviest, single target damage dealer in the system. As above, anyone who wants to make a "blaster mage" will find it difficult as mages don't fit that role well. They are the only class that can do area damage, though, and they are the only ones by default with spells to bypass enemy armor (which reduces damage). Plus, resists (aka saves) are very hard to make against mage spells. They tend to succeed a lot. Get past that and they are the most diverse class.
- Can't help with analysis paralysis. That seems to be an individual quirk and could be complicated by the Stunt system, which requires one to make a choice from a list of around 6 options (that grows as your character goes up in levels). My rec was to pick a "favored stunt" and if you can't decide in a few seconds, try and go with it.
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