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JerichoPenumbra · Apr 2, 2024

Pedantic said:
I think there's some misunderstanding here. The Unliving doesn't have any trait or ability that inhibits normal magical healing, they have an ability that provides an additional way to heal a limit amount daily. I think you're importing some older edition rules around Cure/Inflict spells and the Undead type.

Um, Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Heal, their Mass versions, and the Prayer of Healing spells all specify in Level Up that they cannot target Undead which Unliving counts as.

Edit: The only core healing spells that work on a target without specifying that they cannot target an undead or a construct are Goodberry, Venomus Succor, and Regenerate. Healing potions can work too, but the time to produce them as well as the gold cost quickly becomes expensive.

Pedantic · Apr 2, 2024

JerichoPenumbra said:
Um, Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Heal, their Mass versions, and the Prayer of Healing spells all specify in Level Up that they cannot target Undead which Unliving counts as.

Edit: The only core healing spells that work on a target without specifying that they cannot target an undead or a construct are Goodberry, Venomus Succor, and Regenerate. Healing potions can work too, but the time to produce them as well as the gold cost quickly becomes expensive.

Oh you're totally right. I hadn't noticed that was shifted to the "target" line and assumed it was just removed. Nevermind!

Timespike · Apr 2, 2024

JerichoPenumbra said:
Um, Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Heal, their Mass versions, and the Prayer of Healing spells all specify in Level Up that they cannot target Undead which Unliving counts as.

Edit: The only core healing spells that work on a target without specifying that they cannot target an undead or a construct are Goodberry, Venomus Succor, and Regenerate. Healing potions can work too, but the time to produce them as well as the gold cost quickly becomes expensive.

Which basically puts unliving characters in the same position as ones in a party without a healer. They can still spend hit dice, use potions, etc.

Probably the best (and most on-flavor) work-arounds if you're really nervous about that is to go the vampire route (the heritage gift and/or the feat chain) and the Catch Your Breath maneuver. Those will all give you ways to mitigate the lessened healing. There's also the Grave Knight archetype if you really want to lean into the undead tank model. That gives you both the Adamant Mountain school (so you can grab Catch Your Breath) and modifies Lay on Hands so you can use it on undead (albeit with half efficiency).

I may also look at some additional healing spells that can work on undead going forward.

JerichoPenumbra · Apr 2, 2024

Timespike said:
Which basically puts unliving characters in the same position as ones in a party without a healer. They can still spend hit dice, use potions, etc.

Probably the best (and most on-flavor) work-arounds if you're really nervous about that is to go the vampire route (the heritage gift and/or the feat chain) and the Catch Your Breath maneuver. Those will all give you ways to mitigate the lessened healing. There's also the Grave Knight archetype if you really want to lean into the undead tank model. That gives you both the Adamant Mountain school (so you can grab Catch Your Breath) and modifies Lay on Hands so you can use it on undead (albeit with half efficiency).

I may also look at some additional healing spells that can work on undead going forward.

I'm less nervous about future prospects since options do exist (wasn't trying to dispute that) and they can be properly planned for. I'm more concerned for this is affecting the party's tank with while we're in a place with limited resources since we only caught this change recently, but we'll deal.

Steampunkette · Apr 2, 2024

JerichoPenumbra said:
I'm less nervous about future prospects since options do exist (wasn't trying to dispute that) and they can be properly planned for. I'm more concerned for this is affecting the party's tank with while we're in a place with limited resources since we only caught this change recently, but we'll deal.

Can I offer a couple suggestions?

1) Grant the tank a Boon that allows them to be healed with magic as if they were alive. Just straight up gift from a deity/patron/entity.
2) Make a new spell.

Personally I'm enamored of the idea of a "Cure Undead Wounds" spell that starts out a 3d8 healing but can only be applied to undead. Undead PCs are fairly niche so the increased healing value out of a 1st level slot isn't that big a deal, undead thralls/pets/etc typically don't contribute to the party's success nearly as much as a player character does so the increased healing value doesn't significantly alter the party's survival (especially since that's a slot and action that could've healed a PC or harmed the baddies), and low level undead followers rarely have 25 HP so a max result is usually wasted.

Add in the lack of +Wis for guaranteed minimum healing... feels good to me?

Timespike · Apr 2, 2024

If you're finding it crippling and your GM agrees, you could also just houserule that unliving are healed by magic as if they lacked the undead type for your campaigns. I doubt that'd be game-breaking.

Faolyn · Apr 2, 2024

Steampunkette said:
2) Make a new spell.

QED.

Restore Body
1st-level (transmutation; healing, technological, undead)
Classes: Artificer, Bard, Cleric, Wizard
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: One construct or undead
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

With a touch, damaged unliving flesh, wood, metal, and similar material is knitted together, leaving a faint but obvious scar--animated but unliving bodies tend to not heal as cleanly as a living person does. The target regains hit points equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.

Cast at Higher Levels. The hit points regained increase by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.

Rebel Mage · Apr 3, 2024

Faolyn said:
QED.

Restore Body
1st-level (evocation; healing, technological, undead)
Classes: Artificer, Bard, Cleric, Wizard
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: One construct or undead
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

With a touch, damaged unliving flesh, wood, metal, and similar material is knitted together, leaving a faint but obvious scar--animated but unliving bodies tend to not heal as cleanly as a living person does. The target regains hit points equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.

Cast at Higher Levels. The hit points regained increase by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.

I'd put this in the necromancy school. (Then again, I'd place healing spells in the necromancy school in general, and I don't agree with when it changed to non-necromancy. That might've been 3e?)

Timespike · Apr 3, 2024

I'd actually put it in transmutation, based on the description.

xiphumor · Apr 3, 2024

There's a part of me that wants there to be one spell for objects/constructs, and another for undead, as those feel like very different kinds of magic to me. Although the spell that assists undead would need some other kind of utility boost.

3PP Release New 3PP release: Manual of Adventurous Resources: Complete! AVAILABLE NOW!

JerichoPenumbra

Explorer

Pedantic

Legend

Timespike

A5E Designer and third-party publisher

JerichoPenumbra

Explorer

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer

Timespike

A5E Designer and third-party publisher

Faolyn

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Rebel Mage

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Timespike

A5E Designer and third-party publisher

xiphumor

Legend

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