Running games for pay as another income stream for TTRPG companies

el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
Not really into online play, but I do run in-person games for pay through Dungeons n' Drafts. It is $20 for a 3 or 4 hour session (plus a drink special) usually from 6 or 6:30 to 9:30 or 10 pm and it run at a brew pub. Tables are usually full.

There are mostly one-shots with pre-gens, but also mini-campaigns that I think are 4 sessions (I haven't run one yet).



 

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MGibster

Legend
Ever done theater? If it is your job, getting bored isn't an excuse.
I get up and "perform" almost every week during new employee orientation. You're right, it's not that hard to fake it when you know what you're doing. How many people in customer service roles fake it every day?

I know there are folks active in ENWorld who are much more keyed into the TTRPG industry and know better how the economics of TTRPG publishing works. Am I missing something obvious on why this kind of approach wouldn't work?
I think what you're missing is the cost of labor versus the expected return on investment. I've been reading a lot of Chaosium books lately, so let's just pretend they want to start a GMing service for their games Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, Runequest, and 7th Sea. We're going to hire Herbert West to exclusively run Cthulhu games. And let's keep things simple, this is going to be an hourly, part-time position, so we're not expected to provide Dr. West (he's a physician) with employer benefits like medical, dental, or vision insurance.

How much do we pay Dr. West per hour? I'm going to be very generous to the company here and say we'll pay West $20 per hour and we expect him to work an average of 20 hours per week. But then we need to remember we're obligated to pay federal and sometimes state and/or local payroll taxes. I'm not actually in payroll, so I don't know all the associated expenses, but let's just be generous and say in addition to the $400 we expect to pay West weekly we can tack on another $80 in expenses. So in payroll expenses alone, we pay West $480 a week (that number should probably be higher).

But that's not all it costs the company. We've got to have company infrastructure to support West and the other GMs. We need someone to recruit candidates, someone to supervise them, they need gaming materials (scenarios, rule books, etc., etc.), an online infrastructure to facilitate remote gaming, and you'll need someone in HR/Payroll to deal with employees scattered throughout multiple states. I'm not exactly sure how to calculate the cost of all this.

What's the return on investment for us hiring West? Remember, we're doing this primarily as a means to generate revenue rather than viewing it as something like an advertisment expense or something like that. Let's say we expect to generate $960 in revenue from West's work. How much do we need to charge for each session to remain profitable? West needs to make us $48 for each hour he's working which means we have to charge our customers $9.60 per hour (assuming a group of 5). To simplify things, we charge each player $38.40 for the session and it lasts four hours. Sometimes you might not have a full group, but we'll say the minimum is group is 3, in which case you won't make that whole $960 each week unless West has that full table 5 days a week.

I cannot stress enough that my numbers are weaksauce. There's all sorts of complications including make sure your customers are happy in addition to all the other costs associated with doing business. I personally don't think it's worth any company's effort to try this as a line of business.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
For a company like WotC I’m not sure how it would scale in any meaningful manner. Not as a revenue stream. As marketing, sure (but the entire online streaming community does that for free for them already), but as a revenue stream?

To scale it they’d literally have to turn into a broadcaster, not a game company. At which point there are probably more profitable shows to make than TTRPG live plays.

Smaller outfits can do it for sure. But for the revenue stream to be meaningful to a company these of Hasbro? They'd need to be running hundreds of games per day. The actual play department would dwarf the game design department.

The better approach, if live games is what you want to do, is the professional AP route. Get something of the quality of Critical Role and charge people to watch it. You only have to run one game, not hundreds, and you can 'sell' it to thousands of people.
 

I spend a lot of time looking through StartPlaying, which I would imagine would be the biggest competition for this.

I'd say each game runs roughly $10-20/session - the one that blows my mind is an Exandria game, that shows 6/7 seats paid for for $40/session. That's about the top end I've seen, and it's obviously people paying because they love Critical Role and want to experience that world.

I don't see a way where it would be worth it for a lot of places. One thing I HAVE seen is one of my favorite game designers, John Wick, use it as a place to essentially have seminars. Last I saw, he was running events where he would talk about the history and his intentions for Legend of the Five Rings for $20/person, with twenty slots available.
 

Panzeh

Explorer
I'm not sure how StartPlaying makes money itself, yeah, but i'm not sure being the middleman here would be that lucrative, and I don't see WotC being able to actually pay professional GMs to handle the mass of business they'd need to do- SP relies on people doing it as a side hustle for the most part.
 


aco175

Legend
Like $3.50 at least!
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I would agree with this. I’ve always been baffled why the bigger rpg companies don’t lean harder into online pay to play options.

Welcome to Magpie Games Curated Play

I mean, how much would you pay for a four hour one shot with Mike Mearls?

He's okay, but I'd rather a game run by Kevin Kulp any day of the week.

And, the thing is, these guys have real jobs. The amount you'd need to pay to replace their day-job income would be high.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
For a company like WotC I’m not sure how it would scale in any meaningful manner. Not as a revenue stream. As marketing, sure (but the entire online streaming community does that for free for them already), but as a revenue stream?

Yeah. Magpie games does it largely for marketing - to get people introduced to their games, and give them a low-risk way to learn how to play each of them.
 

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