Level Up (A5E) So. Permanency, the spell.

Micah Sweet said:

See, I have no problem with Con loss or XP as a cost, because I don't accept the idea that permanent stat loss just "isn't done anymore" because that's very much a preference (and greater restoration can easily be nullified by spell text) and I don't care for milestone XP.

I'm sure there's a way to thread the needle though.

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Faolyn said:

There's very little precedent for attribute loss in 5e, which would make it difficult to do it in a way that's fair (with or without greater restoration), and, well, my table and I hate non-milestone leveling, because even with the introduction of exploration challenges granting XP, there's still too much emphasis on killing monsters for XP. So that's out.

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Faolyn said:

I seem to recall there being "rules" for magic item creation in the 2e DMG, but they were very mythological in feel. Things like having to get the footfall of a cat, with it being up to the player to decide how getting such a thing was possible. Definitely nothing like magic item creation in 3e. A large part of me wants to go back to that sort of magic item creation--but that still assumes magic items are very rare, rather than a given.


Oh, that I like!


Yeah, this was the main reason for permanency. I'm well aware that people will be buffing themselves with it--but with your idea of using an attunement slot, that keeps permanent spells to a reasonable maximum.


Well, in the particular case of detect magic, there are a fair number of classes who basically can get that permanently already--warlocks can use it at will as early as 2nd level, for instance, via Eldritch Sight. So it's mostly a case of what sort of spells would be too OP if gotten permanently, especially when considering magic items that do the same thing.


That's another strong possibility. Thoughts, everyone?

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Faolyn said:

There's very little precedent for attribute loss in 5e, which would make it difficult to do it in a way that's fair (with or without greater restoration), and, well, my table and I hate non-milestone leveling, because even with the introduction of exploration challenges granting XP, there's still too much emphasis on killing monsters for XP. So that's out.

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DarkRainbowFiend said:

i also point out there's even less precedent for attribute loss in A5E.

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Faolyn said:

Spells that are cast on creatures and have a range of Self and Touch can't be made permanent (but see "Cast at Higher Levels" below).

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Faolyn said:

Cast at Higher Levels: When you cast this spell with an 8th-level spell slot, you can make permanent spells that have a range of Self or Touch.

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W'rkncacnter said:

i don't understand the talk of casting permanency to put buffs on people, because this version of the spell explicitly states:


so you can't make spells cast on creatures permanent, even with an 8th-level slot (the 8th-level upcast lets you make self or touch spells permanent, but says nothing about spells cast on creatures). am i misreading this? is the upcast supposed to let you make spells cast on creatures permanent?

EDIT: also with the attunement angle - would the caster or the target creature need to attune to the spell? because if you separate making spells on creatures permanent from the upcast, that could give artificers a very interesting synergy if the caster needs to attune to it....

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W'rkncacnter said:

i don't understand the talk of casting permanency to put buffs on people, because this version of the spell explicitly states:


so you can't make spells cast on creatures permanent, even with an 8th-level slot (the 8th-level upcast lets you make self or touch spells permanent, but says nothing about spells cast on creatures). am i misreading this? is the upcast supposed to let you make spells cast on creatures permanent?

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Faolyn said:

I don't think I want a permanent loss of a spell slot. I like the idea, but even a 20th-level caster only gets a single 8th- and 9th-level slot.

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