Pathfinder 2E Never give up on PF2

Retreater said:

9) Too many classes. (Swashbuckler, Gunslinger, Witch, etc., could just be subclasses.)

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I don't play PF2 but was an avid PF1 GM (and still occasionally am a player) so maybe my unfamiliarity with PF2 makes this confusing but I don't get it. Don't the subclasses still end up different from the main class, effectively making them their own class with some overlap? Is it the overlap that makes it easier or is there something else I am missing?

Hex08 said:

I don't play PF2 but was an avid PF1 GM (and still occasionally am a player) so maybe my unfamiliarity with PF2 makes this confusing but I don't get it. Don't the subclasses still end up different from the main class, effectively making them their own class with some overlap? Is it the overlap that makes it easier or is there something else I am missing?

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Edit: pulling out my negativity.

Hex08 said:

I don't play PF2 but was an avid PF1 GM (and still occasionally am a player) so maybe my unfamiliarity with PF2 makes this confusing but I don't get it. Don't the subclasses still end up different from the main class, effectively making them their own class with some overlap? Is it the overlap that makes it easier or is there something else I am missing?

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Subclasses can be very different or just kind of a blip depending on the class and your choices. They typically get you a few specific abilities and access to some feats that expand on your choice, but in some cases you can instead focus on the feats every subclass has access to.

Velderan said:

Similar situation here with a table of 6 players that started in person and moved to remote play, though we haven’t lost any players yet. I think if we did, I would probably just run with 4 players and if we lost another, I would start looking in the local PFS groups to find a good fit. I see people on the local PFS Meetup group interested in running more than just PFS scenarios often enough, I don’t think it would be too hard to find a player or two in my area if I needed one.

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PFS is how I built my PF1 group that lasted a good decade before vivid wrecked it.

payn said:

PFS is how I built my PF1 group that lasted a good decade before vivid wrecked it.

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The two closest FLGS to me that run games both seem to have a good group of people that seem friendly enough, I would probably start there if I needed a player or two.

Velderan said:

The two closest FLGS to me that run games both seem to have a good group of people that seem friendly enough, I would probably start there if I needed a player or two.

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I haven’t done PFS since 09 but it is a fun way to play and meet new gamers.

SpellObjectEnthusiast said:

What skills do you feel are missing? Can you give examples?

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So if you go back to the (what I consider; YMMV) good old days of D&D style skill systems, I really felt D&D 3.5 and PF1E hit the sweet spot. Some of these skills are now "folded in" to other skills, or are accessible through feats, but in essence the skills I find I constantly wish were still discreetly available include: appraise, crafting (more nuanced, not just general), bluff (a discreetly different sort of skill from active deception skills such as disguise or ventriloquism), sense motive (crucial, and the fact that it is rolled in to Perception is frustrating), Linguistics (vital to the sorts of campaigns I run where I like to have a more nuanced take on languages), knowledge checks (now lore) that are more recognized on the character sheet and emphasis on skills like history being more expected (but PC builds need to be less tight in their advancement math to allow PCs to pick up these skills and not feel penalized if they do), Ride as a real skill, Perform as a set of skills, and finally break Thievery back in to Disable Device and Sleight of Hand, which are two discreetly different types of skill even if they could be related. I guess what I am saying is I really miss the old PF1E skill system, where you can have more nuance and wiggle room for design.

I do understand that not everyone likes lots of skills, so I get that design choices lead to streamlining. But PF2E streamlined the skills and then gated so many useful applications behind skill feats in a way that made D&D 5E's skill system feel more intuitive and accessible (and it is, on both counts).

Another actual play of PF2e, this time the GM is one of the co-designers of the 2e ruleset Mark Seifter running it for a bunch of YouTubers. Mark's YouTube channel has some good stuff on it, it doesn't have the usual ragebait about whatever WotC is up to and gasp just talks about gaming stuff he enjoys talking about.

MichaelSomething said:

If PF2 is so easy to run, then why not run a game for your fellow Enworlders??? Once the doubters see the engine in action, I'm sure they'll change their minds.

Less telling people PF2 is great; more showing people PF2 is great please.

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There are 2 discords where people announce free games:
- Look for the subchannel: lfg | as_gm
(this is the Pathfinder 2E discord but for some reason they've left the invite as a random hash rather than the name.)
- Look for the subchannel: seeking-players

The second discord has other channels for paid content so make sure you know which sub channel you're in.

You can also find games in other places but most of those are over 50% paid so I'll let people find them on their own (I'm assuming it'd be against the rules here to link those).

One place to NOT bother with is roll20. Very few Pathfinder GMs are left in there, as the toolset on roll20 is very low quality and over-monetized. By contrast a surprise hit might be looking in the various Fantasy Grounds communities as FG has been recently putting effort into it's PF2E tools and just ended a massive sale for GMs to get started there.

There are also discords for Foundry, for Pathfinder in Foundry, and for the 'Rules Lawyer' YouTube channel that have some LFG info, but are mostly discussion.

As for posters here running. I'll give the standard excuse of time to run anything. Right now I am actually gearing up to run the beginner box for my brother, a friend of his, and the friend's who live in another state. Once I get into my groove; time permitting, I will be setting up a second game for the Sky King's Tomb Adventure Path. But 'get into my grove' is key here because it's been 20 years since I GM'd anything.

• That said, the tools for me to do so are all there, and the majority of my pre-game prep is making a small little map I wanted for a neighborhood in a dwarven city to be the 'home base' for the PCs. The one failing of the module is that it says "the PCs get rooms in this inn from their patron, which can be their home base' and then doesn't map that spot as it's never used for anything but theater of the mind RP.
• But I like maps...

For the other game, with my brother, the plan is Beginner Box and then maybe Abomination Vaults. My game prep has consisted on downloading some 'AI art' of local buildings a YouTuber made in a lore video and then shared, which I liked, and using it for Foundry backdrops. That's basically it. Beginner Box is so easy I am intentionally running it without reading the adventure just to see if it's that easy. As I have already done half of that for my brother and his own kids - the answer is it works, but middle school kids might not be best. He actually games with them in FFXIV though.

But just because a module is so well done you can run it blind doesn't mean the game or rules are. However as a player that's how I learned them - in play with a GM who was doing the same. You just need a table were people are willing to set egos aside and look things up (we were online so doing this in the archives of nethys site was fast - faster than I could find things in my actual PDFs or hard copy books).

20 years ago that was my rule as a GM: players are encouraged to rules correct me with page references and quoting stuff. I found that it resolved things fast and if I kept egos down, feelings were smooth and we carried on.

Velderan said:

I don't know if I'd ever be willing to run a game online for randoms. If I ever GMed for people I don't know, it would be in-person for Pathfinder Society at a FLGS. That being said I listened to most of this actual play before I ran the game and found it helpful.

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Funny thing for me is I've ended up in the opposite camp.

Online digital tools have gotten so good I don't know if I'd ever want to run or play in an in person game again.

I love how fast I can find rules on archives of nethys, get some lore out of a wiki, or have Foundry run the math for me. I love how I can have good visuals in Foundry and a token that 'actually looks like my character' rather than whatever mini was for sale that was 'decent enough to at least be a similar species / ancestry but not that weapon and well... painted better.'