Level Up (A5E) Is it worth adding Tales of the Valiant into my A5E campaign? Anything added?

So I just recently bought in to A5E fully (got the 'everything' package as part of the Voidrunner kickstarter; learned that there's lots more and in process of buying everything A5E over at DriveThru). I haven't played a campaign yet; just reading through everything (and loving it so far! Destinies - brilliant!, rare spell variants - brilliant!, exploration/journey system - brilliant! Martial manuevers, expertise dice system, etc, etc, loving everything so far!).

One of the great selling points for A5E when I found it was that it was 5E-compatible and I theoretically could mix/match in a modular fashion with all my O5E stuff (and 3rd party 5E stuff). And that got me thinking maybe there are other 5E-compatible systems that might add something to the mix. I started to search around to see what else was out there, and aside from a theoretical project from Cubicle 7 that hasn't seen news updates in nearly a year, there's Tales of the Valiant which seems to have lots of buzz (though I'm not sure why).

ToV player's guide is expensive, $35, and so all I can judge by is looking at the table of contents. Same for the ToV dm's guide, though that's not out yet.

Scanning the contents, all I see that snares my interest is the Luck system, but that sounds a lot like the Inspiration system in A5E, rebranded. Also I like that 'carousing' is listed in the downtime activities section, which sounds fun, but $35 is a lot to spend just to get a system for carousing... and for all I know there might not even be any kind of system, just a paragraph blurb description of what carousing is (as if the reader is from another planet).

In the dm's guide, the only thing that jumps out at me from the table of contents as different is the 'Advanced Social' section, particularly the sub-heading on Factions. A good faction system would be excellent to add in (though I'm already super-impressed with Worlds without Number's faction system which is game-agnostic), but again for all I know there's not system there at all, and only a description of what factions are, which I really don't need.

So I just wanted to ask if anyone has picked up ToV and if so, were there any parts of it that you were able to graft onto or into your A5E campaigns? It seems not worth it to me, at least at first glance, but I wanted to check for some opinions.

I've also heard the Luck mechanic is interesting.
Isn't there an SRD? Would that be enough to get the few things you're wanting without buying the books?

There is indeed an SRD. It's called the Black Flag Reference document and can be found here: Black Flag Reference Document

As far as adding stuff from it to your A5E game goes: I'm not sure there's much worth porting except possibly some monsters. Kobold Press added a couple of interesting new creatures to their Monster Vault product that I haven't seen elsewhere and those might be fun. To my eyes, at least, ToV seems more like it's trying to keep things a lot closer to the original 5e source material rather than doing a full upgrade/overhaul that's still backwards-compatible like A5E.

Retreater, I hadn't thought of that, just googled and found a 'Black Flag Reference Document' which seems to include... well, just about everything. Now I have 2 thoughts... 1 Why would I pay for the ToV Phb when this ref document is apparently free and 2 Now I feel a little guilty, like I'm cheating the system somehow...

Luck section is indeed a bit like Inspiration, but some cool differences. You can accrue and hold on to up to 5 Luck points for as long as you want, then spend them to either add 1 for 1 to your roll, or spend 3 Luck points at once to do a re-roll. Also one thing I actually LOVE about this Luck system is that the player gets a Luck point every time he fails a roll. Really nice way of 'easing the sting' as well as helping to slowly counterbalance a 'cursed d20 that always rolls low' which every player encounters in at least one gaming session. Otherwise it's very similar to Inspiration. I'm thinking both systems could be used together, for different things. Luck points every time someone fails a roll (maybe except for critical fails), and Inspiration for when the player does something awesome or fulfills his Destiny.

One of the things I love about Destiny is that it not only encourages roleplaying but also empowers the player to be the one gently reminding the dm of when Inspiration should be awarded. DMs have enough on our plate, the Inspiration system is great in theory, but if the DM never remembers to award any, it just doesn't work.

Jonstark said:

Retreater, I hadn't thought of that, just googled and found a 'Black Flag Reference Document' which seems to include... well, just about everything. Now I have 2 thoughts... 1 Why would I pay for the ToV Phb when this ref document is apparently free and 2 Now I feel a little guilty, like I'm cheating the system somehow...

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Well, it's something Kobold Press put out legally, so it's not like you're illegally downloading it. I'd try to not feel too guilty about that.
I think SRDs (or free QuickStart rules) are great ways to try out new systems before you commit to purchasing them. Especially if - like in your case - you are interested in only a specific design feature.
(I just dropped off 5 bags of RPG systems to sell to my LGS. I wish I had listened to my own advice before purchasing most of those.)

Here is an excellent review / breakdown of all the Tales of the Valiant Player’s Guide

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=laKTvg21jB0

I have both but consider them two different takes on 5E. Tales of the Valiant is designed to be more closely compatible while still tweaking the experience...it kind of fits what I want out of a 5E clone better, honestly. A5E is more like a revamp of 5E, changing up how one thinks about it. I really like what it does, but it is a bit harder to integrate at the table as a result of its more distinct changes. I suggest sticking with A5E if you like it, as I don't think ToV will offer anything you don't already have in the A5E books. But ToV is a great choice for someone just looking to sustain the 5E experience and jump off the WotC bandwagon.

Jonstark said:

Retreater, I hadn't thought of that, just googled and found a 'Black Flag Reference Document' which seems to include... well, just about everything. Now I have 2 thoughts... 1 Why would I pay for the ToV Phb when this ref document is apparently free and 2 Now I feel a little guilty, like I'm cheating the system somehow...

Luck section is indeed a bit like Inspiration, but some cool differences. You can accrue and hold on to up to 5 Luck points for as long as you want, then spend them to either add 1 for 1 to your roll, or spend 3 Luck points at once to do a re-roll. Also one thing I actually LOVE about this Luck system is that the player gets a Luck point every time he fails a roll. Really nice way of 'easing the sting' as well as helping to slowly counterbalance a 'cursed d20 that always rolls low' which every player encounters in at least one gaming session. Otherwise it's very similar to Inspiration. I'm thinking both systems could be used together, for different things. Luck points every time someone fails a roll (maybe except for critical fails), and Inspiration for when the player does something awesome or fulfills his Destiny.

One of the things I love about Destiny is that it not only encourages roleplaying but also empowers the player to be the one gently reminding the dm of when Inspiration should be awarded. DMs have enough on our plate, the Inspiration system is great in theory, but if the DM never remembers to award any, it just doesn't work.

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DnD5e also has the 5.2e SRD which contains everything needed to play, and A5E has an INCREDIBLY generous SRD that includes every release... at least it will once they get it up to date
iirc KP's Black Flag SRD is more like WotC's 5.2e SRD, it has everything needed to play, but that means one subclass per class. You get more stuff by buying the books.

As far as Luck/Inspiration/Destiny, I agree with you on all points.

Luck is 99% on the player- the GM can toss out luck here and there for arbitrary reasons, but generally a character gets it once per turn by missing an attack or failing a save. Personally I think once per turn is too generous, I make it once per round.

My issue with Destinies was twofold: their imbalance- some Sources of Inspiration were way easier to get than others; and their Fulfillment Features- players wanted to fulfill them ASAP and some are more nebulous than others... IMO there should be a stated level requirement (optional or suggested) or what tier a character should expect to fulfill their Destiny in. Players were complaining that they couldn't fulfill their destinies by level 6 or 9, when to me it was clear that Destiny fulfillment was something to occur in Tier3 or Tier4 because characters get them automatically in Tier4 if they didn't fulfill them by then.

I moved most of my tables to Luck and tossed Destinies entirely... but I did think that you could keep the Destiny's inspiration use by making it cost 4 luck.

My group is running A5e and we ported over the Luck system to it because I absolutely loved it in my other 5e games. it works just fine. We haven't delved into destinies yet but figure we can just count one inspiration destiny activator as three luck points. Hopefully that works!