D&D (2024) GREYHAWKCONFIRMED! Reflections on Greyhawk in the DMG

I've had time to think about it now, so I thought I'd put together a brief (yes, really!) post about my thoughts regarding Greyhawk in the DMG for 5e: 5e Harder.

Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste. I've been around for a long, long year. And I've stolen many of your hours to waste. Mainly about Greyhawk. At the bottom of the post, I'll link to some of my prior Greyhawk threads if you want to see my musings (including some evolution in my thoughts).

Let me start with this- obviously, we haven't seen what they are going to do yet. So any comments, ideas, and criticisms must be tempered by the simple fact that until we know what they actually release, we can't really make definitive statements.

With that in mind, I will offer the following observations-


1. On Full Reflection, I Am Happy With The Approach They Are Taking.

If you look through all of my past Greyhawk threads, you will see an evolution in my thoughts. I am an unabashed Greyhawk fan. I think that at the beginning, I wanted a Greyhawk that I remembered. In other words, the perfect Greyhawk would have been a deluxe set, setting everything back to the 1983 campaign setting timeline, with a deluxe "Darlene" map, and goodies. Oh, and also instructions in it that all issues and questions were to be resolved by Snarf. Who is your god, now? Muahahahahahaha!

Over time, I began to remember that what made Greyhawk special to me was that Greyhawk was a setting of hooks, but not answers. Were DMs were free to put their own material in. That every table had a different Greyhawk, and that was fine. Moreover, that Greyhawk not only was full of mysteries and unexplored areas in the Flanaess (the main map area), but the rest of Oerik was yours to fill in.

And that's what I want for the next generation of gamers. A setting to make their own. I don't want it to be encumbered by the cruft of too much lore, and too many strictures. Make Greyhawk the setting you want it to be.

So, in that way, I am incredibly happy that they are using it as a teaching example in the DMG. Because that's the setting that I fell in love with- a setting that provided a map, some hooks, and that I made my own. I want that for other people too. And I know that their Greyhawk won't be my Greyhawk, and that's okay! Because I want them to fall in love with what they create. That's the point, right?


2. Of Course, the Devil is in the Details.

We know that there will be a map (awesome!), but we don't know what, exactly, the DMG will have about Greyhawk. I will have to wait and see; implementation is always an issue.

More importantly, Greyhawk needs to be opened up on the DM's Guild. People should be sharing their creations. If they don't, I will have major issues.


And that's it. I thought I'd have more to say, but for once ... I don't. I'm happy with this approach, with the express reservation that I haven't seen it yet. I honestly think that this might be the best approach for them to take with Greyhawk as well. I hope that this sparks some interest in the old stuff, but more importantly, I hope that people find as much joy in creating their own campaigns in Greyhawk as I did.

Now, if you want to do a deeper dive .....










Finally, if you want a quick link to the sourcing for the debate about whether 1e Greyhawk is a "points of light, holding off the wild" campaign setting re: population, go to this post here.

I hope Greyhawk and Mystara to be unlocked in DMGuild.

Maybe the iconic characters from 3rd Ed could be useful for merchandising. (OMG! They were only pictures but I miss them!).

Pretty much how I feel about it Snarf. I fell in love with Greyhawk from the moment I bought my 1st printing of the World of Greyhawk Folio at my local neighborhood game store (LNGS), well it was near my middle school not my house.

It was my first introduction to heraldry which I have maintained a fascination with, the Darlene map was amazing, and I loved that "hookiness" of the setting. Plenty to spark the imagination visually and in text.

I had nothing else, so I made it my own with the occasional (very occasional) additions by Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz, Len Lakofka, and a couple of others I can't name off the top of my head in Dragon magazine. Most of the Dragon material found its way into the '83 box set which I also purchased.

After Gary's ouster in '85 the first material out was of varying quality. Eventually TSR went after Greyhawk fan sites and the bad times began. I still pine for the days when the setting was not weighed down by officially published material and fan material that slowly filled in all the spaces of the setting.

I am glad they are going back to the basics of 576 CY and letting a new generation discover and create in Greyhawk without having shovel loads of accumulated lore holding them down. I cannot wait to see the the Infinite Oerths (tm) that will be born from it.

My first homebrew was a mash up of Greyhawk and Mystara but with an Elminster type sagely wizard named “Longfellow” (I’d been reading Greenwood’s early Dragon mag articles) with all the off-color jokes you can imagine teenage boys making about that name.
E

Edit: Of course, by "Mystara" I mean "The Known World." It would not be called Mystara for another half decade or more.

Snarf Zagyg said:

We know that there will be a map (awesome!)

Click to expand...

We have, at least, seen Mike Schley's map that will be on the poster included with the DMG:

@Parmandur

Thank you!

I am looking over it now. Love it. It will never be the Darlene Map, but ... maybe this will be the Darlene Map for a new generation.

There's some changes. Interesting. The ones I see ... look like they were needed (ahem, nomads, barbarians).

Also, Blackmoor is now Arn.

Well played.

Snarf Zagyg said:

@Parmandur

Thank you!

I am looking over it now. Love it. It will never be the Darlene Map, but ... maybe this will be the Darlene Map for a new generation.

There's some changes. Interesting. The ones I see ... look like they were needed (ahem, nomads, barbarians).

Click to expand...

I think it is good enough to warrant the distinction of just being differently good from the singular Darlene map: it is a little less unique, since we have seen similar aesthetic in cartography from Schley, such as in the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide, whereas I don't really think I've seem anything else quite like the Darlene map. There is that art book coming out from TenSpeed press this Fall, Worlds & Realms: Adventures from Greyhawk to Faerûn and Beyond, that I hope has the Darlene map available for new audiences too.

The map is clearly a reboot to the original Gygax time frame and geopolitical situation (Iuz is hemmed in by the Horned Society, the "Rovers of the Barrens" who have their original in-text endonym on this map, smd the Baklunish pastoralists who similarly have their endomyms on the map; the Great Kingdom exists). Interesting straight up changes include Blackmoor being named Arn (Arneson referenxe without conflating Arneaon's Setting into Greyhawk), North Province is Aerdiaak (which seems all new, no precedent I can find), and the Scarlet Brotherhood is secret on the map (Shar seems to be from 2E, Suol for "Purity").

Greyhawk is a great example to use in the DMG of how to build a setting. It gives just enough to spark the DM's imagination without burying the DM in excessive lore. I'm really happy with the map and the decisions we've seen so far. Hopefully this enjoyment will continue throughout the release of the DMG.

Parmandur said:

The map is clearly a reboot to the original Gygax time frame and geopolitical situation (Iuz is hemmed in by the Horned Society, the "Rovers of the Barrens" who have their original in-text endonym on this map, smd the Baklunish pastoralists who similarly have their endomyms on the map; the Great Kingdom exists). Interesting straight up changes include Blackmoor being named Arn (Arneson referenxe without conflating Arneaon's Setting into Greyhawk), North Province is Aerdiaak (which seems all new, no precedent I can find), and the Scarlet Brotherhood is secret on the map (Shar seems to be from 2E, Suol for "Purity").

Click to expand...

I think the changes are good. And yet ...