Level Up (A5E) Need a clarification on devoted assault

lichmaster said:

In both cases, you take an action to activate the maneuver, and the maneuver specifies what happens next, in some cases triggering another action, but you in fact benefit from one action only.

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While this is the general case, we must remember this clause right at the beginning of the book:

Specific Beats General
If you see a rule about a specific circumstance which
contradicts a general rule of the game, the specific rule takes
precedence over the general rule. Individual features, spells,
and traits can often “break” the general rule. These specific
instances should be considered exceptions to the general rule.


So the rules allow us to break the general rule of 1 action per round if a feature says so....and Devoted Assault does. We also can look at other maneuvers that specifically limit attacks, such as perfect assault that gives a specific number of attacks and prevents the use of maneuvers that grants extra attacks..... so the rules do have situations where it adds languages to prevent a large number of extra attacks...but this one does not.

The problem with your interpretation, is it requires you to insert rules handling that doesn't exist in the game. You have to add in "restrictions" into the number of attacks allowed, effectively ignoring certain pieces of various maneuvers. My interpretation is just the natural and logical step by step reading of each piece of the maneuver.

Now again if you think that's ridiculously OP I can respect that, but I do think its the superior mechanical reasoning in this case.


Ultimately I think the best version of this to try is.... only the crits given to you by the Devoted Assault maneuver (not the extra attacks granted by the additional maneuvers) can grant you more maneuvers. This is in line with the rules language, while the advantage on attacks and only attacking one target is specified (until the beginning of your next turn), so it does apply to everything you do in the round.....there is nothing that suggests the devoted assault crit benefits "carries over" into other maneuver use.

That is still a very powerful maneuver, but perhaps more in line with what high level fighters are intended to do.

Stalker0 said:

So the rules allow us to break the general rule of 1 action per round if a feature says so....and Devoted Assault does. We also can look at other maneuvers that specifically limit attacks, such as perfect assault that gives a specific number of attacks and prevents the use of maneuvers that grants extra attacks..... so the rules do have situations where it adds languages to prevent a large number of extra attacks...but this one does not.

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I see your point, but I don't think the wording of the maneuver is specific enough to grant an additional action on top of any previously taken action without any further qualifications.

Stalker0 said:

Ultimately I think the best version of this to try is.... only the crits given to you by the Devoted Assault maneuver (not the extra attacks granted by the additional maneuvers) can grant you more maneuvers. This is in line with the rules language, while the advantage on attacks and only attacking one target is specified (until the beginning of your next turn), so it does apply to everything you do in the round.....there is nothing that suggests the devoted assault crit benefits "carries over" into other maneuver use.

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I do agree with this reading, overall. I just don't think that the wording is precise enough to warrant additional attack actions on each crit, even if restricted to the ones given by Devoted Assault. The main reason is that there may be combinations that allow for an infinite (or in any case stupidly high) number of attacks. I'm not trying to artificially put a cap on the number of attacks with some arbitrary rule, but I'm trying to have a consistent approach on the action economy side.

I already made the example of the Warrior Monk. Even with your more stringent interpretation, which is still looser than mine in this regard, the WM may be able to perform 3 attack actions + 1 bonus attack (which would of course be a flurry of blows). If before the devoted assault he manages to stun the target, every single attack will be made with advantage and automatically crit. That's 11 attacks, and with each attack, on top of scoring a crit, the WM will also regain exertion at a faster pace than he's able to spend it upon.

Another example: furious criticals, specifically relentless attack. If the target gets stunned before, by using dazzling prowess for example, all following attacks will auto crit. So then when using Devoted assault, each attack will be a crit, triggering the attacks from furious critical, and then the further attacks from the maneuver, which would also be crits. Put that on a dual wielding berserker, and see how broken this combination is.

Ultimately, every table should play the game that is most fun for them. At mine, until there's a clarification from the designers, I wouldn't have the additional maneuvers trigger separate attack actions.

Arise dead thread!

This is coming up in my group and after reading through this, I agree with @Stalker0 's interpretation of the rules. As my player pointed out, Devoted Attack is a bonus action, which gives an effect, not any attacks. The character could pick any maneuver they have for their set of attacks. Then, for me, it's the action chosen, whatever that action may be, that benefits from Devoted Attack on a crit.

I see this as limited by only getting to attack one target and only activating on a crit. Even with advantage and if they have a stance that stuns or increases their crit range, that works for me.

As I think of it, it's potentially not as good as some think due to the level required and monster they may be fighting. I know that high level (CR) dragons and demons get a reaction on a hit, which could be movement of some type. If they do that, this shuts down the maneuver unless the character has enough movement to get to where their target ended their movement. Further, they can't do anything to any other enemy. If another monster comes up to them, no reactions to it. They are shut down except for that one enemy for this entire round.

Thanks for the discussion!