Here's That Hi-Res Sword Coast Map

WotC hit their $100K Extra Life charity funding goal, and have released the high resolution labeled map of the northwest portion of Faerün, from Amn to Icewind Dale, and the Moonshae Isles to the Dalelands. It's pretty enormous - 10,200 by 6,600 pixels! That's 141 x 91 inches. There's a smaller version of it below, but hit the image to jump to the full size giant version. The map was created by Mike Schley.

WotC hit their $100K Extra Life charity funding goal, and have released the high resolution labeled map of the northwest portion of Faerün, from Amn to Icewind Dale, and the Moonshae Isles to the Dalelands. It's pretty enormous - 10,200 by 6,600 pixels! That's 141 x 91 inches. There's a smaller version of it below, but hit the image to jump to the full size giant version. The map was created by Mike Schley.

Sword-Coast-Map_HighRes.jpg
Click on this for the enormous hi-res version​
 

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pukunui

Legend
I have been a lurker on Enworld for years, and finally decided that this topic was where I would make my posting debut.
Welcome!

I am confused that this supposed to be a 5E map, when it is clearly a 3E map with a few 5E names thrown in. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the artist, for I am certain this map required numerous hours of labor to produce. Please permit me the time to explain my position in further detail by comparing 3.5E, 4E and SCAG maps.
It's actually a lot closer to the 2e map. For one thing, the 3e map includes trails as well as roads, whereas the 2e and 5e maps only show roads. For an example, compare the roads in the region between Baldur's Gate, Elturgard, and Dragonspear Castle.

Now I admit that in The Sundering series the Underchasm is filled in ... I read the books, and I didn’t get any implications that all such sinkholes were filled in.
Almost all of the changes made during 4e -- and even some of those made during 2e's Time of Troubles (eg. Bhaal is back!) -- have been changed back by the Sundering. The only ones the SCAG mentions as still being around are the floating city of Airspur and the remnants of Tymanther. Oh, and Elturgard.

So given these discrepancies, I have to say that the beautiful, wonderful and inspiring SCAG map is a 3E map that is being paraded as a 5E map.
It's very much a 5e map. Just because it more closely resembles the 2e and 3e maps than the 4e one doesn't mean it's "being paraded" as something it's not. The Sundering event was designed to restore the Realms to more or less pre-4e times (and, in some cases, even pre-2e). Hence why the map looks the way it does.
 
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Benjammin

First Post
It's actually a lot closer to the 2e map. For one thing, the 3e map includes trails as well as roads, whereas the 2e and 5e maps only show roads. For an example, compare the roads in the region between Baldur's Gate, Elturgard, and Dragonspear Castle.

I didn't look at my 2E maps for my original post, and I should have, because I agree with you.

Almost all of the changes made during 4e -- and even some of those made during 2e's Time of Troubles (eg. Bhaal is back!) -- have been changed back by the Sundering. The only ones the SCAG mentions as still being around are the floating city of Airspur and the remnants of Tymanther. Oh, and Elturgard. ... The Sundering event was designed to restore the Realms to more or less pre-4e times (and, in some cases, even pre-2e). Hence why the map looks the way it does.

Respectfully, yes and no. The Sundering is the separation of Abeir and Toril because of the restoration of The Weave. The recombining of Abeir & Toril was an accidental side effect of The Spellplague when the Weave failed. Thus anything that is Abeir-on-Toril goes back to Abeir, and we have to assume Toril-on-Abeir comes back to Toril (hello Evermeet?). Except for a few locations without explanation, as you noted (designers' privilege to keep genasi and dragonborn in 5E?). Clearly with the Weave restored, the plaguelands go away. [Sux to be a follower of the Order of Blue Flame I guess!]

Thus changes wrought by Abeir being present are removed by The Sundering, but not the mundane effects that happened around that (imho). The giant sinkholes were caused by earthquakes collapsing the Underdark, not be pieces of Abeir crushing the Underdark caverns like giant meteor impacts. Chult became an island because the oceans were tumultuous and swept away most of Samarach, Thindol, Tashalar and the Lapal region jungles. Luiren and Var sank into The Great Sea by the same events. Halrua was blasted by all the magicks going awry. The Shaar became a desert because of climactic changes. I doubt that these changes will be undone - but I could be surprised!

So the giant mountain of Xian southwest of Nathlan - yeah, that's gone. Earthmotes? Yup, gone as well. But the devastated region of Halrua? Sunken Luiren? Island of Chult? I don't think those have changed. If the SCAG map is truly officially 5E, then how the devil(s) and angel(s) did all the changes occur?

Yes, there were changes from the 1E to 2E maps, and fairly large changes from 2E to 3E/3.5E maps. The 2E to 3E/3.5E changes were explained in meta-game terms: reduce areas no one plays in and increase areas where people play in. Some folks didn't like that at all, but at least we understood why the changes occurred. We have no understanding of why the Farsea Swamp suddenly split back into 2 different marsh regions, or the giant gaping sinkholes vanished. Or glaciers suddenly reappeared and lakes vanished. Such major geographic changes need to be explained, at least in metagame terms.

I guess what I really, really want [please, no Spice Girls comments!] is for Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford to come out with an "official canon changes from 4E to 5E Forgotten Realms" guide and clear up all this mess.
 

dpmcalister

Explorer
I guess what I really, really want [please, no Spice Girls comments!] is for Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford to come out with an "official canon changes from 4E to 5E Forgotten Realms" guide and clear up all this mess.
Just think of it the way I do... like Bobby Ewing and Dallas... 4th Edition Forgotten Realms was just a bad dream ;)
 

Uchawi

First Post
Encouraging people to support a charity for sick children?

Yup. Good on them! I agree. Donate to the sick children!
The problem is making the assumption that anyone that downloads the map for free has not donated to a similar charity or otherwise does things to help our fellow human beings. The charity is a worthwhile cause. But if WOTC decides to release the map for free, then we can still be aware of the generosity of WOTC and not have to feel guilty about it.
 

Benjammin

First Post
Oh, and in case it wasn't clear: THANK YOU MIKE SCHLEY FOR THE AWESOME MAP!!! My disagreements are not with you or your skill, but with the lack of clarity from the designers as to why they had you make the map in the way you did.
 

gyor

Legend
Samarach is still around, people only think its gone because its hidden by Illusions.

And there are more 4e Changes that survived then people think.

The Warlock Knights of Vaasa, the Wereanimal tribes of Dambrath, the Elf Harrows, changes to Algorond's government, possibly other things.


And some places that were destroyed in 4e only seemed like they were destroyed.
 

I think that someone earlier in the thread overlaid Mike Schley's map on the 2nd edition boxed set map, and found that they were so close as to be identical; in other words, it appears that Mike Schley (who in my mind is known as 'Captain MapMan') started out by tracing the contours and locations of the 2e map, and then drew the, uh, decorative elements on top. So this explains the question of 'why does this map have pre-4e elements on it'.

As to your actual question - 'how on earth did that happen?' I do not believe that we have an answer to this. I think that WotC are taking the gamble that the fans will, collectively, be happy enough that the setting has reverted to not care as much about the hows and whys. I expect that an explanation will arise for many of these things, but I am fairly sure that explanation won't be particularly full or detailed: the critical concern is that things are back to normal, not the method by which they did so.

In the SCAG they mention that the Sea of Fallen Whotsits expanded again because it rained a lot. (As a Scotsman, I feel this lore very deeply.) Anyway, this is a fairly odd explanation, and they mostly gloss over the inevitable catastrophe that this would be for the surrounding areas (loss of land, the complete destruction of all the crops in the affected areas, etc). Why? They wanted it back to shape, and as fast as possible. The rest doesn't matter.

Edit: By the way, welcome to the boards, [MENTION=6805158]Benjammin[/MENTION]! That was a pretty impressive and interesting first post :)
 

pukunui

Legend
Thus changes wrought by Abeir being present are removed by The Sundering, but not the mundane effects that happened around that (imho). The giant sinkholes were caused by earthquakes collapsing the Underdark, not be pieces of Abeir crushing the Underdark caverns like giant meteor impacts. Chult became an island because the oceans were tumultuous and swept away most of Samarach, Thindol, Tashalar and the Lapal region jungles. Luiren and Var sank into The Great Sea by the same events. Halrua was blasted by all the magicks going awry. The Shaar became a desert because of climactic changes. I doubt that these changes will be undone - but I could be surprised!

So the giant mountain of Xian southwest of Nathlan - yeah, that's gone. Earthmotes? Yup, gone as well. But the devastated region of Halrua? Sunken Luiren? Island of Chult? I don't think those have changed.
You clearly haven't read the SCAG then. Halruaa is back. Its inhabitants foresaw the Spellplague and moved their entire land to someplace else. Luiren and Lantan are back. Chult is no longer an island. Yes, Evermeet is back as well.

If the SCAG map is truly officially 5E ...
WotC is presenting it as such, so how can it not be?

Such major geographic changes need to be explained, at least in metagame terms.

I guess what I really, really want [please, no Spice Girls comments!] is for Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford to come out with an "official canon changes from 4E to 5E Forgotten Realms" guide and clear up all this mess.
WotC is expecting you to come up with your own explanations. They've deliberately left some questions unanswered and some regions undetailed so that DMs can make the Realms their own. Personally, I think that was a great idea. No more having to feel beholden to 30 years' worth of lore. The Realms is now just a framework on which you can hang your own stories.
 


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