Any Supers Game that feels Super?

An offshot from another thread.

HaroldTheHobbit said:

I don't play 5e anymore but GMed two long 1-20 campaigns. And looking back, I wish I had switched to a dedicated supers system after level 14ish. Neither monster abilities (boring at the best of times) nor the rules or combat system really work at the highest levels when the players become true superheroes. And I don't blame anyone - a game system that is pretty good for farmers punching goblins and the lvl 3-12 sweet spot range doesn't have to work for supers play. But I think a superhero system way of building both characters and opposition would be better for tier 4 play.

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The super games I've tried never really worked well. I haven't played a lot of them tough. Champions, Mutants and Masterminds, Dream Park, and a really old one where your character was supposed to be yourself (with stat estimations) plus superpowers. All of them felt slow, clunky, and poorly balanced to me. Dream park was probably the best one because it was so streamlined, but we never played a true superhero game there.

Anyone has a supers game they'd truly recommend?

I like Masks using PbtA, but if you are looking for a detailed and balanced combat system, then its not a good choice. Take that with a grain of salt as I dont like Supers games, but when its pushed into a more narrative space, it seems to feel right to me. YMMV.

payn said:

I like Masks using PbtA, but if you are looking for a detailed and balanced combat system, then its not a good choice. Take that with a grain of salt as I dont like Supers games, but when its pushed into a more narrative space, it seems to feel right to me. YMMV.

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I think super hero role-playing probably works better with a more narrative structure, but I am pretty new to such games. Something like Blades in the Dark might work well. Actually the Princess World hack of BitD I have been using could be a good start. There each princess has a specialty, such as "Rose, princess of Flame" or "Clara, princess of waves" and whenever that specialty is relevant, you gain an additional die. Compared to base BitD this is really cheesy, but it works, feels heroic, and makes each princess unique. Considering the almost unlimited scope of possible superpowers, its impossible to write detailed rules for each.

What does PbtA stand for?

Starfox said:

I think super hero role-playing probably works better with a more narrative structure, but I am pretty new to such games. Something like Blades in the Dark might work well. Actually the Princess World hack of BitD I have been using could be a good start. There each princess has a specialty, such as "Rose, princess of Flame" or "Clara, princess of waves" and whenever that specialty is relevant, you gain an additional die. Compared to base BitD this is really cheesy, but it works, feels heroic, and makes each princess unique. Considering the almost unlimited scope of possible superpowers, its impossible to write detailed rules for each.

What does PbtA stand for?

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Powered by the Apocalypse. If im not mistaken, BitD is an adapted PbtA with more mechanics? So, we might be on the same page here.

Dream Park wasn't really a supers game in the first place even if you could play a capital-G Game within the RPG where your characters were playing a superhero scenario. The "really old one" sounds like Villains & Vigilantes. If you're not happy with Champions' game balance from about 4th or 5th edition onward you probably aren't going to find anything better in that regard, but there are a slew of options that are faster in some ways and less focused on physics simulations over tone.

I would recommend the Sentinel Comics RPG as the best system for emulating the feel of an actual comic book story. The system is a cousin of Cortex, plays quickly and smoothly once you get used to it, and the core book is complete and self-contained...which is a good thing, since supplements are far behind schedule. Its major drawbacks are its inability to handle long-term play (the encounter-building system falls apart with experienced heroes, with the problem rearing its head somewhere between ~60-100 sessions) and a rather freeform power and action system that calls for a lot of creative investment from everyone involved to keep things interesting, which may not be to everyone's taste. As with most supers RPGs the character creation system is the most complex part of the game so expect a session zero dedicated to that - but it's got far fewer decision points and math than Champions, M&M, or even V&V, especially when using the "Guided" semi-random method. Also, despite appearances the game engine works fine without actually using the canon setting, so knowledge of the (vast) background lore from the podcast and card game isn't needed if you'd rather run homebrew or (say) Marvel or DC.

Masks is arguably the best system for running a game about young heroes (high school to college ages, and you could maybe stretch younger if you wanted to do PS238 or something). As Payne noted, it's a Powered by the Apocalypse system and focuses hard on interpersonal relations and identity over detailed combat and power balance, and it really doesn't try to go beyond its fairly narrow wheelhouse. There's an "adult supers" PbtA system out there as well but the name's eluding me and I've never played it so I can't recommend it personally.

Other likely possibilities that might suit include Prowlers & Paragons and the various games from Four-Color Studios, all of which use similar game engines that take a more traditional design approach than (say) Sentinels does and sit somewhere between it and M&M in terms of overall complexity. They do a pretty good job of feeling like a comic book during combat at least, although the pacing mechanics and twist mechanics in the SCRPG make me like it a bit better for that. P&P has some pretty great support material (settings, adventures) as well, including some recent 3PP stuff.

At the low end of the complexity scale there's also Tiny d6 Supers from Gallant Games, which benefits some from being easily modified and having dozens (if not hundreds) of other Tiny d6 products to crib material from. The core book and the Gallantverse campaign guide pretty much must-buys but beyond that you can pick and choose to your heart's content.

There are many more out there but those would be my top recs given the original post.

Blades in the Dark is derived from Powered by the Apocalypse, but there seems to be a number of differences. I'm not familiar with Powered by the Apocalypse, as might be guessed from me not recognizing it. you saying BitD has "more mechanics" does sound promising for Powered by the Apocalypse - I think supers does best rules-light because rules just can't cover all of those superpowers.

Villains and Vigilantes it was indeed. This was back in... 1982? Anyway we never got much beyond session zero, but it still left me with a negative impression, which may be why we never went past session zero.

Masks is the winner so far. Sentinel Comics RPG does sound interesting, but also like quite an investment, and I really like campaign games.

I think there are a few.

To comment on systems already mentioned here… Galaxies in Peril is a Blades in the Dark version of supers. I ran a campaign of that and it worked well and was a lot of fun.

Masks is probably the best PbtA supers game I can think of. It is thematically based on young heroes finding their identity, so it’s a little more narrow than a standard supers game… but it’s really well done.

Aside from those, the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG from TSR is an excellent game that holds up surprisingly well. It has a lot of element that have become staples of games I enjoy… degrees of success, thematic rewards system, abstracted resources… I started playing a game with my kid recently and was reminded how much fun the game is and how well designed it is.

I also recently purchased The Spectaculars from Scratchpad Publishing as it was on sale for $20. I’ve only just started reading it, but it certainly has the tone right. I really like its approach to campaigns and setting building. I haven’t read enough of the mechanics yet to have a really strong opinion, but they seem interesting.

Definitely Palladium's Heroes Unlimited.... ...wait, why'd everybody leave?

crickets

payn said:

I like Masks using PbtA, but if you are looking for a detailed and balanced combat system, then its not a good choice. Take that with a grain of salt as I dont like Supers games, but when its pushed into a more narrative space, it seems to feel right to me. YMMV.

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There's always the problem of how you can model a team like the Avengers or the Justice League who have members like Thor & Superman working shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Batman, Hawkeye, or Black Widow. Without some sort of narrative system, it's tough to have something challenging Superman that Batman can tangle with.