D&D 2E 2E Darksun Observations

Zardnaar · Dec 18, 2023

So thinking of running 2E Darksun. Might have to change my mind. New players never grew up with AD&D. Some have played it.

Character creation. The players stuff is laid out terribly in Darksun. Lots of cross referencing required. They can grok Castles and Crusades fine or 2E vanilla reasonably OK. A few annoying typos eg Cleric spheres.

Psionics not going well along with character tree. Haven't even got to wild talents yet.

Racial restrictions and level limits are triping up power gamers. Thri Kreen would make a great Druid. But get -2 charisma. Druids need 15 charisma just to qualify 16 for 10% xp.

Psionics

Multiclassing. Looks tempting but they're starting to figure out the downsides. 1-2 levels behind isn't to bad. But class based xp bonuses means bards, Thieves and traders might get 4-5 levels ahead despite bring "weak".

Have I mentioned psionics?

Non unified ability scores/AD&D NWP system. Not going well lol.

Relevant info is elsewhere in book and can be difficult to find. Eg keen and half giant water requirements.

"What do you mean you're going to be strict on water and food". Reasons......

Psionic now I remember why I didn't like them.

AD&D 3E required oops.

Yora · Dec 18, 2023

I very much applaud wanting to run Dark Sun.

But are you sure you want to run 2nd edition? That one always seemed like the most daunting of any editions and retroclones.

R_J_K75 · Dec 18, 2023

Yora said:
That one always seemed like the most daunting of any editions

2E Dark Sun and Planescape were both pretty daunting as both a player and a DM for me. So many weird sub-systems and rules you had to know. Out of all the campaign settings up until that point I always considered them the most advanced and really didnt work with a group of casual players and put most of the heavy lifting on the DM. I played in and DM'd both but the campaigns rarely lasted more than a few months.

Zardnaar · Dec 18, 2023

R_J_K75 said:
2E Dark Sun and Planescape were both pretty daunting as both a player and a DM for me. So many weird sub-systems and rules you had to know. Out of all the campaign settings up until that point I always considered them the most advanced and really didnt work with a group of casual players and put most of the heavy lifting on the DM. I played in and DM'd both but the campaigns rarely lasted more than a few months.

Yeah that's a fair assessment.

cbwjm · Dec 19, 2023

I think if I was going to play 2e again, I'd remove any ability requirements or level limits. I might keep class restrictions. I'd like to add in a favoured class which grants a 10% xp bonus meaning leaning into an archetype grants you a bonus so dwarves make great fighters and have that extra 10% to earned xp, halflings would have thieves as favoured, elves might have fighters and wizards or perhaps the multiclass combo fighter/wizard as favoured class. Humans would always gain the favoured class bonus.

Perhaps don't use NWP and instead give everyone secondary skills, they encompass more (a trapper likely has tracking, hunting, and survival NWP just from the background) and you can let them earn addition secondary skills through play if you want. Same with WP, just let them use all weapons their class is allowed and let fighters and gladiators still specialise (I'd probably use broad groups rather than specific weapons nowadays).

Psionics, I'm not sure if I'd use the original or the revised version but either way, maybe don't have anyone be a psionicist, wild talents only and only from a curated list that gives them a neat little trick or two.

Zardnaar · Dec 19, 2023

cbwjm said:
I think if I was going to play 2e again, I'd remove any ability requirements or level limits. I might keep class restrictions. I'd like to add in a favoured class which grants a 10% xp bonus meaning leaning into an archetype grants you a bonus so dwarves make great fighters and have that extra 10% to earned xp, halflings would have thieves as favoured, elves might have fighters and wizards or perhaps the multiclass combo fighter/wizard as favoured class. Humans would always gain the favoured class bonus.

Perhaps don't use NWP and instead give everyone secondary skills, they encompass more (a trapper likely has tracking, hunting, and survival NWP just from the background) and you can let them earn addition secondary skills through play if you want. Same with WP, just let them use all weapons their class is allowed and let fighters and gladiators still specialise (I'd probably use broad groups rather than specific weapons nowadays).

Psionics, I'm not sure if I'd use the original or the revised version but either way, maybe don't have anyone be a psionicist, wild talents only and only from a curated list that gives them a neat little trick or two.

I do similar things. Trying a mire or less retro as is gane.

GreyLord · Dec 20, 2023

If I ran Dark Sun again...

In 2e (or could even using 1e with this idea) I'd only use the flavor of the books. I'd use the general AD&D rules, but use the flavor and lore of the books to run the game.

In 3e, similar to AD&D, but probably use the Dragon Magazines as sources.

In 4e, I'd use the Dark Sun Campaign setting and the Creature Catalogue (I believe that's what it is called) along with the 4e rules. It meshed pretty well in 4e.

In 5e, I'd go back to the AD&D books for lore and flavor but using 5e general rules.

Orius · Dec 28, 2023

You using Psionics Handbook or Skills & Powers/Revised Dark Sun for psionics?

Ah yes, isn't all of 2e's subsystems fun?

Staffan · Dec 28, 2023

Orius said:
You using Psionics Handbook or Skills & Powers/Revised Dark Sun for psionics?

Ah yes, isn't all of 2e's subsystems fun?

Ah, the wonders of Skills & Powers psionic combat, aka "Stop hurting yourself!"

In S&P, you needed to lower a target's PSPs to 0 to make contact with a closed mind and thereby be able to use telepathy on them. Basically, that's like saying a wizard is immune to magic until you strip them of all their spell slots. In order to reduce their PSPs, you needed to use attack modes to punch through their defenses. However, most of the attack modes cost more PSPs to use than the "damage" they'd inflict, so you'd hurt yourself more than your opponent.

I really wonder what they were thinking with that one.

Zardnaar · Dec 28, 2023

Orius said:
You using Psionics Handbook or Skills & Powers/Revised Dark Sun for psionics?

Ah yes, isn't all of 2e's subsystems fun?

Psionics Handbook.

Ran a solo session for wife. She got dimension door and dream travel.

D&D 2E 2E Darksun Observations

Zardnaar

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Yora

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R_J_K75

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Zardnaar

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cbwjm

Seb-wejem

Zardnaar

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GreyLord

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Orius

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Staffan

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Zardnaar

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